190. Looking into the Mirror with Chase Voorhees, creator of Tarot of the Holy Spectrum
Jump to:
Listen | Show Notes | Transcript
In honor of the return of the original Tarot of the Holy Spectrum deck (plus *TWO* brand new Tarot decks), we have a very special conversation with Chase Voorhees, creator of Tarot of the Holy Spectrum!
Air date:
August 15, 2022
Find this episode on:
Apple Podcasts
Stitcher
Spotify
Listen
About the Episode
We dive into art, following your intuition without knowing the why, the creative process, how creativity and work changes shape so dramatically after parenthood -- and the full scoop on Chase's two brand new Tarot decks! Pre-sales are open now, so if you'd like to snag your copy, sign up for Chase's newsletter at the link below in the show notes!
Plus, I dive into my three (!) new offerings, and the Soul Tarot for Self Tending bundle sale, which will only be available until this Wednesday, August 17th! To learn more or to purchase, click the link below!
Links:
Sign up for Chase’s newsletter to get earlybird access to the Holy Spectrum presale!
Check out Lindsay’s Soul Tarot for Self Tending Bundle, available only until 8/17!
Chase’s IG: @holyspectrumtarot
Soul Tarot Courses + Workshops
Land Acknowledgement
Honoring and acknowledging that this podcast episode was recorded on the unceded land of The Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde, currently called Portland, OR, with the deepest respect to the Kalapuya Tribe, Cowlitz Tribe, and Atfalati Tribe.
Please Note
CW Tags: Parenthood, medical emergencies, surgery, pregnancy, c-section birth, and post-partum
The content in this episode contains references to Parenthood, medical emergencies, surgery, pregnancy, c-section birth, and post-partum. We have done our best to identify difficult subject matter, but the labels may not be comprehensive for your personal needs. Please honor your knowing and proceed with necessary self-awareness and care.
Transcript
[Introduction]
[0:00:00]
—
Welcome to Tarot for the Wild Soul, a podcast that explores the Tarot through an inclusive, soul-centered, trauma-informed perspective for growth, healing, and evolution. I'm your host, Lindsay Mack.
—
(Instrumental intro music)
[0:00:21]
Hello, Loves, and welcome back to Tarot for the Wild Soul podcast. Lindsay here and, as always, so delighted to be gathered with all of you. So the pod is not officially back yet. That's going to happen, I think, in a little over two weeks on August 31st. We'll be back with weekly episodes. The new format and the guests are all starting to shape up, and I think it's going to be really nice. I'm so excited to, yeah, come back and be connected with you all in that way. Today is just a really special drop, just a little treat before I come back. It's a conversation between myself and Chase Voorhees, who is the creator of Tarot of the Holy Spectrum.
And it's a really, really exciting time for them and for fans of Tarot of the Holy Spectrum, because Chase has just announced that they've completed not just a reprint of the kind of original Tarot of the Holy Spectrum deck, but also have announced that they've created – which I've, of course, had a backseat view of, or (Lindsay laughs) a backstage view of rather– that they've created two brand new versions of Tarot of the Holy Spectrum.
One is the Infinity version, which is a wild kind of color with abandon and mirrored backs and edges. And the other one is the Color Me edition, which enables and empowers the user to color it in however they see fit. I know, it's a big deal. It is. Chase is my husband and my best friend, obviously, and the editor of this podcast so there's just so much kind of interwoven inside of this, but I mentioned this in the interview, I am legitimately and genuinely such a big fan of Chase's work, even beyond our relationship, that I really wanted to just have an opportunity to talk to them, not just about the creation process for these decks and what creation in postpartum now that they’re a Papa, what that is, and their inspiration behind all of this, but just sort of also share that I am legitimately as a user, as a reader, of these decks just so continually blown away by how potently and clearly these cards in his deck read. It's just extraordinary. So I'm so excited to share our kind of off-the-cuff conversation. And I hope you really enjoy it.
[0:03:19]
Pre-sales for Chase’s newsletter subscribers only are open today, Monday, and Tuesday, tomorrow. Those are the last days that newsletter subscribers will have first pick of pre-sales for those decks. I imagine they may sell out in the first day or two but if not, you may be lucky to get one after, but if you want to, you know, be a part of learning about what these decks are and score your own copy, you can do that by clicking on the link in the show notes or going to TarotoftheHolySpectrum.com to learn more about how to sign up for Chase’s newsletter. So our conversation’s coming up in a few minutes. And on my end, I actually have my own little early bird/bundle happening for not one, not two, but three brand new offerings that I have coming out in the next month.
The bundle is called Soul Tarot for Self Tending. And these three brand new offerings are all different branches on sort of the self tending ancient tree of, you know, care and looking to the Tarot as a tool for deep self tending and care. The first offering is called Nurturing the Vessel and it's essentially a love letter to anyone and everyone who moves through the world, desires to move through the world, as a vessel for art, for creativity, for service to move through them.
[0:05:06]
You don't need to be some person on top of the mountain, totally, you know, like a divine channeler. We all are capable. We all act, live, from a place of vessel-hood. That's within all of us. Any place that we are of service, any place where we create, any place where we parent, we make art, we share, we, you know, disrupt, we unpack. Any place where we have inspiration move through us, that's where we really show up as a vessel for, again, creation and inspiration. And to do that is a very particular kind of energetic output and does require a certain kind of tending in order to keep the engine running. And so this particular class, Nurturing the Vessel, is exactly about that.
It really demystifies the idea of being a “vessel.” It talks about how to maintain boundaries and clear “no” and not just like, let yourself be. Like we can, we can absolutely always, if something comes through, pause, say no, say, “I don't want to be a vessel for that. I have to move away from that, you know.” Whatever it is. Speak about how to tend to the self and specifically look at a range of Tarot Anchors that can really help to support us in that process. So that's one of those offerings.
The other, the second one, is called Tarot Anchors for Radical Self Love. It's literally beyond me how I've never done a Tarot class or course on self regard and self love, but one wanted to come through so here we are. Again, I would say demystifying and moving away from this idea of the commodification of self love, really looking to Tarot Anchors that are specifically chosen to help to bring us closer to the self, embrace ourselves as we are, not necessarily when we're perfect, when we have what we think will make us worthy, how to just really be right here and not try to fall in love with all of it in some magical way, but just truly how to be there with what we've got in the moment. That's what that one is devoted and dedicated to.
[0:07:45]
And then finally, we have one that has been on my heart and in my cauldron for so long. And I honestly feel a little emotion talking about it, which is Tarot and The Inner Child. And that one uses and looks at Tarot Anchors to help to fortify our inner parent, to take care of that inner parent, to nurture that inner parent, and to reach outside of us accessibly and gently to see how we can call in outside resources to serve our inner parent so that the inner child can be nourished, so that there can be a reclamation of that inner child.
We also talk about, you know, if we think about like why even move toward the inner child, because the inner child, among many other things, is really the keeper of our magic, our inspiration, of our play. They hold the key to so much, to so much. And without them, I really believe we can only go so far.
And this course isn't about, again, falling in love with your inner child. A lot of us have difficulty, even I used to be that way where I'd be like, “I don't want to deal with my inner kid. They bring me nothing but trouble.” Now, obviously, my relationship is very different from that. So this isn't to say you've got to love your inner child, you've got to, you know. This is just about the baseline, acknowledging even just the willingness that there could be something inside of touching base with our inner kids that could be a value, and how might the Tarot be a catalyst or tool to help us to do that.
[0:09:27]
So those three offerings are all coming in at the same time. It's my first time having triplets so we'll see how that goes. And (Lindsay laughs) for the next –today, tomorrow, and Wednesday– I'm having both an early bird for those offerings, so a little bit off for each of them if you only want one or two of them. And if you want all three, there's a really lovely discount where you can kind of have all of them together as a bundle, and that's available to the newsletter subscribers. And if you go to the link in my show notes, you'll be able to check out the bundle, you'll be able to access all that, but if you want the early bird, in particular, you have to go to be a subscriber. If you want the bundle, you can catch it on my website.
So that's going until this coming Wednesday, just two days from now. So if you want to save a little money and get access to those offerings, you can. I also have a couple of really amazing things, a couple, a lot (Lindsay laughs) of really amazing things coming on the journey ahead in the next year, and I'm excited for how they'll all come together. But yeah, that's sort of my little intro, my little update on what's going on with me.
In September, again, right at the beginning of September, the podcast is coming back on a weekly basis. There'll be some really big announcements for offerings ahead and ways for us to work together, as well as lots of other magic.
[0:11:08]
So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Chase and myself. I hope you are able to get yourself a copy of these extraordinary new decks. And I hope that the offerings that I'm putting forward, resonate with you and that you find your way to them with good health, and nice tending, and support. So I am very excited to share my conversation. Until we meet again, please take exquisite care of yourselves.
—
(Instrumental transition music)
Lindsay: Chase, welcome to the pod.
Chase: Hello, it's so great to be back again.
Lindsay: (Lindsay laughs) I feel like your, other than I think Anais and maybe Jeff, you're like the all-star returning guest, and it is easy to interview you because you are here.
Chase: Yes, I do live in the same house.
Lindsay: You do live in the same house
Chase: And I've worked on every episode.
Lindsay: Well, you're the editor.
Chase: Yeah.
Lindsay: Yeah. Welcome. Hello, my guests. This podcast insert applause here. Oh, my God, I'm, first of all, how nice to just simply get time with you and in these times (Lindsay laughs).
Chase: Yeah. So nice.
Lindsay: So that’s nice, and it's a real joy to have you because this is a super exciting time in your work, I think, in your creative life and also kind of an… you're making like a “whoa” face and I hear you, I understand. So I'm gonna sort of frame you up a little bit. I talked a little bit about you in the intro, but you are the creator of the Tarot of the Holy Spectrum, which is a Tarot deck that tells a story through color, among other things. Now, I will say and I've said this before, you are in fact, my husband.
[0:13:13]
Chase: Yeah.
Lindsay: Father of my child. You are my best friend, my lover. And all of those things incentivize me toward really just being a fan of you.
Chase: Yeah.
Lindsay: And what you do, but it's not just because of all those things that I say that I'm like, your biggest fan of everything you do. And we met so long ago when we were just little scrap-a-do theater artists. And even then I was like, “Wow, this guy's like, genius. This person is like, great.”
Chase: Thank you. That’s so nice.
Lindsay: So I get so deeply excited about the things you do. And for me personally, I just really can't tell you and really everybody listening to this what a legitimate, genuine fan I am of your Tarot deck. I've been reading Tarot since I was very wee, very young. It is without question the clearest tool, the clearest oracle, you're like nodding. It's true.
Chase: Yeah, I mean, it surprises me. I remember when we very first got the very first proof copy and we started reading with it just for fun, and-
Lindsay: And we were laughing.
Chase: Yeah, it was insane. And I mean, it's a deck I, I mean of course, I've gone back to many times, and I'm constantly surprised at how clear and direct it is. Yeah, just always taken aback almost. And like, yeah, even since I very first got it it's just been so clear. It's also so unapologetic. Like, there'll be times you turn to it and-
Lindsay: You're like, “Okay.”
Chase: You're like, “Alright.” (Chase laughs) I remember, I went-
Lindsay: But… oh no, go ahead, please.
Chase: No, you con-
Lindsay: No, no, you go ahead. You remember?
Chase: I remember when we were, you know-
Lindsay: I think I know what you’re gonna say.
(Lindsay and Chase laugh)
Chase: What do you think I’m gonna say?
Lindsay: The hospital.
Chase: Yeah.
(Lindsay and Chase laugh)
Lindsay: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead, go ahead.
Chase: Before our uh-
Lindsay: Before we drove to our scheduled C-section at like five o’clock in the morning.
[0:15:24]
Chase: Before our daughter was born, we were like drawing cards on it. We were like, “Alright, let's go to the deck and like draw a card and see what this postpartum period is going to bring.” And of course, we got The Tower (Chase laughs).
Lindsay: And because we're both big fans of The Tower, we were like, “It’s great, of course.”
Chase: It's like, great. It was like, this is great. Of course, it's gonna be a Tower moment, of course. And then like, it was a real…
Lindsay: We had no idea.
Chase: It was a Tower moment. I mean, where is the lie? So yeah, it's so clear and shocking sometimes.
Lindsay: It is, and what I was going to say is that I feel, especially as somebody who's pretty sensitive toward like razor sharp stuff, like, you know, it's very friendly.
Chase: Yeah, it is. It's very. It's not brutal. It’s just direct.
Lindsay: No, it's just extremely clear. I also remember I wanted to fling it across the room, but that's great, that's fine that I did. I remember when we were going through just the unending medical stuff. But that really awful period of time where, between the one like ambulance ride to the hospital, and then like 10 days later, going back to the hospital, finally staying and having the surgery, where we didn't really know what was wrong.
Chase: Yeah.
Lindsay: I pulled The Moon reversed again and again. It was like a joke. Yeah, like multiple times a day for days.
Chase: Yeah.
Lindsay: And I remember thinking like, “Okay, I know.” And like, it's just, it's really extraordinary and really, really helpful, and I think very comforting because also, because I use—I mean, I use the Tarot as I teach it—as really like a tool to clear the fog and cut through confusion and it really helped me to honor what's going on in my mind.
Chase: Yeah.
[0:17:29]
Lindsay: In my fears, like not push it away, but be like, “Okay, that's here. This is present. What's the truth? Is the truth different than the noise? Is the noise, the truth, you know, whatever it is, so I can like tend to all of it.” And your deck, I would say, that has always been my work with the Tarot and the Tarot does that, but no deck has done it more helpfully than your deck.
Chase: Yeah.
Lindsay: Like, sometimes I will go to another Tarot deck to pull on that, and I have to do a little bit more work to be like, “Okay, like…” And I'll tune in about it and see, and it's like a process of like weeding through the layers. With your deck, it's just incredibly clear, like, “Oh, yeah, I'm locked in some story,” or “Oh, actually, this just is a messy time and I'm gonna need to navigate this.” It's just, I mean truly, I don't put this lightly, thank god for it, because my relationship with it has gone, no offense, way beyond your creation with it.
Chase: I mean, there's so many times we've turned to it over the years where it’s really helped to just clarify-
Lindsay: Everything.
Chase: Decisions, big decisions, you know.
Lindsay: Yeah, and it doesn't tell you what to do, but it does illuminate and help to. It just presents itself as a little lantern. It does guide the path, really potently.
Chase: Yeah, absolutely.
Lindsay: And I've heard that from other people, so I know it's not just our family.
Chase: Yeah.
(Lindsy and Chase laugh)
Lindsay: I have heard that. Really, I just think it's just really extraordinary. And it looks, it looks and feels so different than any other Tarot deck. Can you describe the look of it, of the original, previously?
Chase: Right. The original edition, which was previously called the Second Edition, and now I'm changing it to just Tarot of the Holy Spectrum, The Original Edition.
Lindsay: For someone who’s never used it before or seen it.
Chase: It's just the basic entry-level Tarot of the Holy Spectrum. It's all black, basically because I modeled it after kind of reaching into the void. I kind of, when I designed the decks, I take kind of a card as the inspiration or a thought, a central like idea for the whole like, theme of the deck. So this one was kind of based around The Fool card, and that's kind of how I guided the design process of the whole deck.
[0:19:59]
So it has matte black edging. It has matte, solid matte, black backs. So when you lay out the cards in front of you and you draw, you're actually kind of reaching into the void, and then I made the box completely black as well with just a holographic infinity loop on the front, which is reminiscent of The Fool card in the deck, which pictures a figure kind of walking off of the ledge and reaching for this infinity loop and kind of like reaching into the void for the infinite.
And that's kind of like what's modeled every time you're grabbing for the deck. You know, you grab the box, which you're reaching for the infinite into the void, and then you draw a card out of the void. That's kind of the experience that I wanted to model around that whole… That's the original intention of like, the deck. You know, you're just reaching into the void for whatever clarity you're looking for, you know,
Lindsay: Yeah. And can you tell us about the color story? So it’s this beautiful black piece with this black box.
Chase: Yeah, with the design of the deck as a whole. And then each line of The Minors is just a spectrum. And these were kind of like guidelines. I kind of wanted to be really strict with myself when I was designing it. I was like, you know, can I stick to a really intense, intentional color story for each of the cards and then kind of have to design the creativity around that to make it all work?
And so each line of The Minors is a color spectrum through Ace to Ten. And if you lay them out in order, they will be in, you know, a spectrum of color. The Court cards each have like a designated color that they correspond with, and those follow through The Minors. And then if you go into The Majors, it's all basically black and white with pops of color that also follow a color spectrum throughout the entire Majors.
[0:22:14]
Lindsay: Yeah, it's really, it's so beautiful. It's like you reach into this black, beautiful void and draw these really bright bold, gorgeous colors-
Chase: Yeah, colors
Lindsay: Yeah, it's really sweet. It’s amazing.
Chase: Yeah, it’s a lot of contrast.
Lindsay: Yeah, it is such a beautiful experience, visually. Also, the decks are just so nice to feel in your hand. They're just great. Yeah, you know, I want to just kind of circle back for a moment, because you… I know because well, we just chat about the things that come our way via, you know, questions from folks and you get a lot of questions, or there are folks sometimes who really want to know, why did you choose to assign like, certain suits certain colors? Or they, and this happens with my work a lot, where –let me see how I can put this– sometimes folks, especially when I was sort of guiding my courses, they would come to me and essentially, say this in a Q&A or on the message board, they would say, or on a DM whether in a course or not, essentially say, “Hey, Lindsay, I have a question.”
And then would proceed not to actually ask me a question, but sort of need to say, “I feel differently about this card than you do.” But there was no question (Lindsay laughs) and I think what was inside of that for them was kind of like, how can we both be right? But for me, I'm like, you know, unless something really needs to be, and I think this is true both of my work and everyone's work with the Tarot because we're seeking essentially to channel something that I think at its heart is capable of immense inclusion and medicine for all, but because we're human and deeply imperfect and prone to flaws and bias, we absolutely get it wrong. So I think the Tarot always needs to be investigated and unpacked, and certainly, interpretations of it, including my own, have needed to be like unpacked and evolved.
[0:24:29]
But I say all this to say that I think sometimes some folks have a really hard time with being like, “I feel this way about a card and you feel this way about a card, or someone taught me this.” And then because you know we all have minds and egos and things we tend to get quite rigid about like, “Well, this means this” when the truth is Tarot is so flexible.
And you and I both, we use the Tarot differently. We have different relationships with it. You and I both are really like, very open, super curious, really flexible with our own relationship to the deck. So I'm curious, you didn't have any particular conscious?
Chase: No, it was more just, I want to say just like instinctual?
Lindsay: Yeah, you're kind of your inspiration for assigning the colors to start the suits.
Chase: Yeah, it wasn't driven by anything in particular, other than my own intuition about it. And it's like, I know, a lot of people have asked me why The Swords are blue. And I, you know, to tell you the truth, I started designing them, and The Swords just wanted to be blue. And so I made them blue, and I followed that. But that actually brings up something really interesting because I've had so many people ask about these things over the years. And it's like, as I'm designing it, there's not one kind of right way to do it.
Lindsay: Of course.
Chase: And so it kind of kept leading me back to these questions of like, which is kind of related to this new edition I have coming out-
Lindsay: Which we're going to talk about. Yeah, of course.
Chase: Where I kind of wanted to invite people to, you know.
Lindsay: Don’t.
Chase: Don’t? Okay, I won’t talk about it. I won’t talk about it until later.
Lindsay: Yeah, don’t spoil it. I’m sorry, I don’t mean to do that, I don’t mean to be a boss.
Chase: Okay. (Chase laughs) Okay, so.
Lindsay: Some of that did go into the new editions you created, correct?
(Lindsay and Chase laugh)
Lindsay: I love that.
[0:26:42]
Chase: Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I guess to answer your question about the suits, that's really just something that kind of came intuitively. It didn’t…There wasn't like a one solid direct answer to why the suits are the colors that they are outside of just like it felt right and it kind of all fell into place that way, and I followed it. So, yeah.
Lindsay: I love that. It makes me think of you and I, in 2020, watched Twin Peaks for the first time.
Chase: Sure.
Lindsay: We had never seen it before.
Chase: Yeah.
Lindsay: And obviously, it was great. We became obsessed. And I remember both of us delighting in the fact that David Lynch is so comfortable with not telling you why certain things are happening.
Chase: Yeah.
Lindsay: And I think that is honestly just a huge part of intuitive work. We don't always know the why. Yeah, it's like our job to follow it.
Chase: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, over the years, since I made the original edition, I've never felt like they needed to change. They've always felt correct to me, you know.
Lindsay: It's always felt right to me, even though I don't necessarily know the why.
Chase: Yeah, yeah.
Lindsay: Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Well, thank you for sharing.
Chase: Of course.
Lindsay: So we're here together today, not just to talk about your gorgeous deck, but to highlight some really big news in the world of Holy Spectrum Tarot. So you've just kind of opened the doors to only your newsletter. You've just announced that not only –because you've been sold out of the original edition– not only is the original edition coming back for pre-sales, but that you have two brand new versions of the deck that are open for pre-sale starting today.
Chase: Yeah.
[0:28:42]
Lindsay: And will only be open for your newsletter. And I think will likely sell out pretty quickly, but maybe some people will be lucky and they can join your newsletter and snag a copy of them. But you've been like quietly working on these two new editions. You have Tarot of the Holy Spectrum: The Infinity Edition and Tarot of the Holy Spectrum: The Color Me Edition. So I want to start with the Infinity Edition, and I'm going to ask you later about your creation process. I have some questions about that, but I would love for you to help people to understand what the Infinity Edition is and what it looks like.
Chase: Okay, so the Infinity edition. Basically, the Infinity edition, I've been working on for like a year and a half or so. I started it almost immediately after the first original edition kind of went on sale. I wanted to do a version of the deck that was kind of… I had so many very strict color boundaries when I did the original edition, which I think is awesome. I wanted to try and experiment with doing… Because I really love like really saturated bright colors and like things like that, I wanted to try and do an edition that wasn't so strict on the format and look as the original edition was, and where I got to kind of play a little bit more.
So I kind of loosened up the boundaries a little bit, just slightly. It still falls within the spectrum and things but The Majors are now fully colored. In the Infinity edition, everything's very bright and very poppy looking. And like, even though the majority, the artwork is the same and has the same intentionality behind it, it's kind of a recolored version that is just kind of more… I don't know, I want to say charismatic, you know.
(Lindsay and Chase laugh)
[0:30:58]
Lindsay: Great. Yeah.
Chase: You know, so I think it's just kind of like… Yeah, I spent a lot of time going through and reworking things and really bringing some more flair and exuberance to the artwork, even though the majority, there are a few cards in this edition that have been redesigned, because I can't seem to escape that (Chase laughs). I just, I'm always like kind of modifying my interps on cards and things like that.
Lindsay: Of course.
Chase: So I like to play and not be so rigid that I'm like, “Okay, this has to be this way.” You know, I want to be able to have flexibility. And so there are some cards that just kind of had… that are a little modified, but the same intentionality is behind all of them. But yeah, it's kind of derived from the second edition. And I would say it's kind of like a sibling, you know. It's like, the same family. But yeah, it's like, a little more bold and a little bit more bright. And so it's been really fun to see just kind of like experience that way. I've gotten some samples throughout the production process. And like seeing them in hand I'm like, “Wow, this is like a different feel.” But you know, it's like, just really exciting. Yeah.
Lindsay: I would say probably the most exciting thing about it is something that you haven't mentioned. Can you talk about the backs?
[0:32:41]
Chase: Yeah, this was like an idea I had a very long time ago. And I (Chase laughs) honestly went back and forth and worked really hard with my production person to make sure it was even kind of possible to work out, and it was a little bit more difficult. And, you know, getting all the things in line and getting them produced in the way that I wanted them produced just took a lot of convincing with the production people.
But I took, where like the original edition is inspired by The Fool card, I wanted to… I had this idea to have this one be kind of inspired by The Lovers card. And, which in my deck, The Lovers is a mirror and I really fought hard to get completely like gloss, mirrored solid card backs and gloss mirrored edges. And the entire box is also gloss mirrored.
So it's literally like when you are drawing a card out of this deck, when it's like spread out in front of you, you're literally reaching into a mirror to pull out a card. And so-
Lindsay: It's pretty awesome.
Chase: (Chase laughs) It's really cool. You know, it's kind of one of those things you have to like experience. I remember… I was like when I first saw the… I saw like a video of the first samples, I was like, “Oh, wow, this is so cool.” I've never… like cooler than I could have even imagined, you know, and what it's just like to hold it in hand. It's like you go to draw it and you literally see your reflection in it, you know, and like it's really like you're drawing intuitively and the symbolism behind it in my head is like while I'm drawing into myself to pull, you know, a card, that's really a reflection of my intuition or reflection of myself.
[0:34:45]
You know, it's, I think, I'm really into symbolism and things, and the symbolism behind the gesture of pulling a card, right? And like that's the intention behind that's super important to me. And like, I think the message, of course, it can mean whatever it means too, whatever you want. And also, it just looks cool. But to me, it's like, I'm really like, instead of drawing into the void, I'm drawing into a reflection of myself, you know?
Lindsay: Yeah, yeah. Amazing. It's so cool and feels different. There's, it's a gloss instead of a matte.
Chase: It's a gloss, yeah.
Lindsay: So it kind of spreads differently. I love it.
Chase: It plays a little differently, but I think it is, with the like, you know, the look of the deck, right? It's a more glossy version of the original. And so like, yeah, it's just kind of like I… Throughout this whole process, I've really tried to just not be afraid of trying new things. And so if I'm gonna do a new version, why wouldn't it be different? You know (Chase laughs).
Lindsay: I've gotten to, of course, see a sneak preview of it. And it's, I mean, extraordinary. It's really amazing. And still reads just this openly.
Chase: Yeah, absolutely.
Lindsay: Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. And then you have Tarot of the Holy Spectrum: The Color Me edition. Tell us about that. And what inspired you to make that?
[0:36:19]
Chase: The Color Me edition, which goes back to this conversation we were having before-
Lindsay: That I cut you off, rudely.
Chase: Yeah, you cut me off before I talked about it, but The Color Me edition is really something I came up with after like hearing people be like, “Well, why is this color this or why is that?” and I'm like, “Because I colored them that way.” (Chase laughs) You know, and it can kind of mean, whatever it means to you. If I was like intuitively guided to color it that way, then, you know, hopefully, that has some greater meaning to you. And like, who knows who it's for, or what message it's coming through to, like, tell?
But it also just, you know, drove me that this kind of conclusion of like, “Well, you know, I'm, you know, this is just my interpretation of this artwork and like, it would be really cool to see everyone else's interpretation of it.” So this one is like completely black and white, and I've left all the doors open, so there's no color, essentially, in it. And the invitation of the deck is to color it in, right? So like, I think-
Lindsay: And the edges are white, and the backs are white.
Chase: The edges are white, the backs are white. So there's totally no limits, like everybody can do their own individual. You can do it card by card and design your own backs and edges and, or you can honestly use it black and white, it still looks super cool. (Chase laughs)
Lindsay: I was gonna say. It still looks really amazing, just black and white.
Chase: Just black and white, but I just wanted to, I think it's like I really wanted to open that door and I really wanted to see what everyone else kind of wants, you know, and like, what that kind of creativity, like, brings everybody else to and like, I think it's just really cool that anyone who does go on the journey of kind of coloring it in will then have like a deck that's completely unique to themselves, you know, that is their interpretation of the colors and the way they wanted to do it and is kind of just like a whole work of art in and of itself, right?
[0:38:39]
So it is kind of like a mix of like a coloring book and like a usable deck, which is kind of where I was like, I had considered doing like a coloring book for a while but something just didn't seem like meshing with me about the idea of it and I was like, “I kind of want, if you're gonna go through the trouble of coloring these things in I want you to be able to use it, you know.” (Chase laughs) And so, and like actually have like some, some a physical deck that like, even in its imperfection makes it completely perfect, right? And so, like there's no right answer, there's no right way to do it. Like you get to kind of go on this journey of like, what do these colors mean to me? What am I being kind of asked to color in? What, you know, just kind of seeing where it all leads you?
Lindsay: I love it. Yeah, I think it's going to be extraordinary. And again, even if someone didn't want to color it in, it looks so sharp and wonderful, just black and white. I love that, and I mean, I think putting the empowerment back into the hands in the minds of the user in everything from creative freedom to greater representation like I think is such a solid leap forward. You described it as a really intentional collaboration between user and artist, and it really feels like that's what it is.
Chase: Yeah, absolutely. And I think I'm just kind of so excited to see what folks do with it.
Lindsay: I cannot wait.
Chase: Yeah, it's just really exciting, and I know I'm going to be doing my own versions of them to you, too.
Lindsay: Me too.
[0:40:24]
Chase: Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Lindsay: I know.
(Lindsay and Chase laugh)
Lindsay: That’s so sweet.
Chase: Yeah, exactly. I thought about that a lot. Oh, my gosh, you get to color in your own deck. So exciting. But yeah, I'm just really excited about it. And that's still very much in production right now, but it's open for pre-sale as well.
Lindsay: So we're gonna talk about the pre-sale very shortly.
Chase: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Lindsay: Incredible. So I wanted to talk a little bit, unless you wanted to bring anything up specifically, about creation processes in general. So you were speaking about, what's very interesting being somebody who lives with you and was sort of in the background while you were making these is that you started working on the Infinity edition, I think, before we were pregnant, finished it the day before our daughter was born, and completed Color Me post- partum. Like, you know, so if you really spanned out the creation of both of these, you started before parenthood was really a part of our journey, during the preparation for parenthood, and when our daughter was in our lives.
Chase: And I remember having a conversation the day our daughter was born, because I had just finished the Infinity Edition a day before. And we were in the hospital, and I was like, “Wow, I'm so glad I finished the Infinity edition when I did, because now like, I feel like my whole life is different. I'm on another journey and who knows where that will lead?” You know?
Lindsay: Yeah. Well, that's like exactly what I wanted to talk to you about. I think we speak kind of, you and I talk about this constantly, but that creation and the work, whatever you want to frame that as, really was, other than each other, the most important dominant point of our lives, I think, to a great degree, and also to kind of a not-so-great degree, that it really consumed us.
[0:42:51]
And when we were childless, it was, again, a passion that like, ruled, dominated, kind of, you know. And, again, lovely and both unhealthy that I think we're unpacking and kind of sorting out because I didn't know that until we had our baby. I think I did, but like didn't really. And it kind of reminds me, if you will afford me the opportunity to be just a touch cheesy in for the sake of kind of putting a fine point on this, it reminds me of this lyric by Stephen Sondheim from “Sunday in the Park with George.” In the song Finishing the Hat, the lyric goes,
“Finishing the hat,
How you have to finish the hat,
How you watch the rest of the world from a window
while you finish the hat.”
And I feel like for me, personally, that has been my experience as somebody doing intuitively channeled, creative work. It's like a lot of time in a room by yourself, figuring it out, and wrestling around. And I feel like creating with a child is so profoundly different, because she is in and of herself a creation. And that took an enormous amount of resources and energy, and it's phenomenal. My attention is so split and I can no longer really watch the rest of the world from the window while I finish the hat, but I'm trying to figure out how to finish the hat in a good way (Lindsay laughs) in a way where something isn't rushed or off my game or out of my center. And in some ways, that's great and other ways, it's challenging and weird and new.
[0:44:48]
So I guess my question—all of that to say—I am really curious. Anything you have to share, because essentially what we're talking about is work and parenthood. And like I believe, and I'm only roughly six months in, there is truly no balance to strike. I think there's always going to be a sense of, you know, feeling bad when you're not with-
Chase: Yeah, there's always a pull.
Lindsay: Always feeling bad when you're not with your kid. And also, when you're not able to tend to your work, or when you have an idea, it's just a different level of like, “Okay, I have to try to put a pin in that, whatever.” So, but I'm curious for you, what, if you have anything to say about this, what was your process in making these decks in these kind of three seasons of your life? And how has creativity in general changed for you now that you're a papa?
Chase: I think…
Lindsay: It's a lot.
Chase: Yeah, that's a big question, (Chase laughs) for sure.
Lindsay: (Lindsay laughs) I can break it down. We can go back to it, whatever you need.
Chase: The first one was completed a few years ago, and
Lindsay: The first edition of the deck, not the new ones.
Chase: Not the new ones. Yeah, the original. And I would say throughout that process, it was like running a marathon, right? And then and I'm, you know, I famously overwork and overwork my whole life, you know (Chase laughs). I'm just kind of, like, get so dropped into the zone, that nothing, I forget everything that's around me, right? And so, then throughout the process of the Infinity Edition, it was when we were pregnant, for the majority of it. Even though I started it before we were pregnant, the majority of the deck got completed while we were pregnant.
[0:46:55]
And that was just kind of like, again, sort of, it was a very long process, right? There were many feelings that went into it, because it was like, when I first started it, it was around this kind of intention to play. And then it became like, it was just like, you know, I want to play. I want to work on this, because I know pretty soon my time is going to like complete, like my time and availability is going to completely switch around so I really need to, like savor these, like, kind of moments, right? And like, I think it's really just kind of like symbolic that I was able to finish it the day before VL came through, right?
And so, which is another, you know, creative endeavor in and of itself, parenthood, and then I think working postpartum, I'm still figuring out. You know, still very much in the process of figuring out what that looks like. Because I have noticed, it's so interesting, when we have had time and when we transitioned back into work, there's an invitation to fall into old habits, because it really illuminates those old habits of like, “Oh yeah, I kind of, when I drop into work, everything shuts off around me, and that kind of can't happen anymore.” You know, and so like, but that wasn't… that kind of tendency to do that is not necessarily serving me. You know, it's just kind of something that has developed over time, and now that it needs to shift and change, and my relationship to that needs to shift and change, it's just been interesting to observe what that looks like.
Where now I would say that the time I get to be creative is extremely savored, right? But also so much more intentional. Where it's like, “All right, I've got like a couple hours here and like, I need to really sink my teeth into it.” And, you know, with creative work, always, you're still following like, an instinct and an intuition and like, sometimes it just doesn't come and like that's been always really hard. And then, now it's even more hard (Chase laughs). You know, it's just like, “Oh, no.” Like, you know, I sat down to work today and like, the inspiration just wasn't there. And like, I think it's now like the new way of kind of working around those limitations is, “Alright, the inspiration isn't here. Can I, instead of sitting here and bashing my head against the wall for the next three hours, can I stop and move on to something else that's more like cut and dry, right? That like I can get done and like, use the time more wisely.”
[0:50:22]
And I think that kind of like, parenthood in general has driven me to use time more wisely, right? And like, kind of going in and being like, “Well, if this thing isn't striking me, if it's not working, I can move on to this thing.” You know, and like, still get use out of the time versus kind of like, you know, I have a tendency to dive headfirst into things and then if I can't figure them out, I will just like, bash my head against the wall until I figure it out, right? And just like, try every single thing, and like, spend hours and hours just like, you know, troubleshooting and like working through things and like figuring it out. And like, I still do that to some extent (Chase laughs). I mean, it's not, you know, it's not a I kind of like, don't have the ability to do it as much, right at this moment, at least, you know?
Lindsay: Yeah, I think for me, and I have a question that I'm gonna follow up on that, but I just wanted to say, I hear you, and I think something that I observed inside of your process for making Infinity versus Color Me, yeah. Is that Color Me you are like, “Poof, this is what it is.” And I'm finding for myself, I’m observing, like, there's something about parenthood that both makes your ability to think about the bigger picture of what you're doing a lot harder, but also makes things… you kind of have to make different decisions than you did before. It's like, you don't have the luxury of sitting around and workshopping something and weighing it all out.
So I feel like where, of course, your process for Infinity was, like, deeply painstaking. And it's not to say Color Me was not, by the way.
Chase: Sure.
Lindsay: But deeply painstaking and really like thinking about every little thing, and wondering and worrying, Color Me you completed so fast. It almost surprised you. And you really get like, “Yeah, I don't have time to like, figure and go back and forth.”
[0:52:44]
Chase: Well, I think that was for the thing with Color Me that was funny, was I believe I had the idea for Color Me and Infinity at the same time.
Lindsay: You did.
Chase: And throughout, like, the time period, I tried many times to start and work on the Color Me edition, and like something wasn't feeling right about it, or like, I wasn't happy with the results, because I had to kind of re-workshop the artwork, so you can color it in, right? And I was just kind of like, “This doesn't feel right. Like, I don't know, if I'm going to be able to do this, I don't know if we'll be able to pull it off and like, be satisfied with the end result.” And then I think I sat down to start on it and it just all was so clear to me. And I was just like, “Oh, I can like, I know exactly what to do.” It was kind of just like, everything was laid out in front of me and I knew exactly what to do to make it work.
And I had been, that is something I had been like, kind of banging my head against the wall on it for like, almost two years now. You know, and being like, I have this edition that wants to come through, I don't know what the missing piece is and like, and honestly, it should be more straightforward than the Infinity edition, but the Infinity edition came through first, you know?
[0:54:13]
So I think for myself, I was just kind of like, what is going on? Why can't this be clear? And then, like I sat down to work on it and it was just clear as day. So I think there is like, because the time use is more intentional I think, you know, that comes with postpartum and just like I don't know, you know. I think for whatever reason I can't, I kind of can't speak to it. I don't know why it was different all the sudden, but like, it just became so clear, you know, and I was like, “Oh, I know exactly what to do and I know how to do this thing and that thing and like we can get this going.” And I was just, I kind of surprised myself. I was just like, this is all the sudden so clear and I have been trying to do this for so long (Chase laughs).
Lindsay: Yeah, for forever. Yeah, it’s so funny. Yeah, I feel like in some ways, certain things feel… like ideas that I've had for so long feel so clear. And in other ways, I've never felt more confused about what to do.
Chase: Yeah, it’s interesting.
Lindsay: I find like, because I don't have the spaciousness I once did, what happens now – and because our childcare is so fragmented right now that like when we get it, it's in fits and starts. And so I find like, for myself, I'll have an idea to do something, to walk away from it for two days (Lindsay laughs). And I come back and I'm like, “Oh, actually, I feel it'd be smarter to do it this way.” Or like already, I'm like, changing prices and moving things around. I'm like, “Oh, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta.” Like, I feel like there's just no time to sit with something. Maybe, I hope in some ways that changes, where there's just a little bit more time, but I think, obviously, we're speaking to like, you know…
Chase: Yeah, well, I mean, it kind of like it does give you a lot more time to ruminate on things right? And so like, but it gives you less actionable time, right?
Lindsay: Oh, I feel like the opposite is true for me.
Chase: Oh, really? I feel like I'm getting so many ideas. And like, I just, I'm just like, “Oh, I gotta remember this one. I remember that.”
Lindsay: Yeah, that's amazing. I love that. I think maybe the difference is that well, I don't know if this is true, actually. But my brain is not the same as it was. It's different. It’s altered. So I don't have the kind of sharpness I did. I don't have the memory I did. And I don't have the… and I'm so tired that I don't have the… and I have spoken this, we have talked about this so many times, the days that I've gone back to work and things have really flowed, like burst through. The juxtaposition. I would say like our home life, the general feeling of us at home with VL and we, is like a gentle 25 miles an hour. It's very gentle in our home, very breezy, very easy.
We're taking things real slow, in general. And I think that was that way before we had a child, but when I work, because of just the way –I don't want to even like be like, “Oh, information is channeled through”– there's just something about being hooked into the creative process that makes me feel like I'm running 150 miles an hour. And trying to slow down when I, is wildly disorienting, very jarring.
And so it's hard because usually when you're in a season of Creation, that's not interrupted. And we're almost like 40, and I think I'm like learning after almost a decade of doing this without a child, like how to get a little better at shifting gears. I imagine it'll take so much time. But, yeah, I've been so blown away. I'm about to do three new offerings in the next month that are little guys, but still three. And I am very curious about like, what it's going to be like to just… the logistics of like, channeling, recording, framing all the information. In some ways, it feels more compact and neat. And in other ways, it feels just like, yeah, it's just a whole new world.
[0:58:57]
Chase: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I feel the same way. It's like, yeah, there's a lot of times where I'll just be like, you know, just frantically making work and then just being like, “Oh my gosh, I have five minutes left.” You know, just trying (Chase laughs) to get it all finished.
Lindsay: I know and I think in some ways, it's been good for us. Because we just used to do a lot of like, ruminating and like, “Oh, it could be this way, it could be that way.” It could go on forever.
Chase: Of course, there was a lot of thinking things out. Yeah.
Lindsay: Which is great, but also we don't really have the luxury of that time, but-
Chase: At least right now.
Lindsay: At least right now. Yeah.
Chase: It's interesting.
Lindsay: Amazing. I'm so excited for people to get their hands on these hot little numbers. So I know that starting today you are having a newsletter-only presale for until Wednesday. Correct? So it closes end of day Wednesday, or it closes end of day Tuesday?
[0:59:59]
Chase: It doesn't. I mean, it's, yeah, it's newsletter only until end of day, Tuesday.
Lindsay: Tuesday, so tomorrow.
Chase: And then it will open up to everybody
Lindsay: If there are any left.
Chase: Yeah, so I think it's just kind of like the newsletter gets first priority.
Lindsay: So for folks listening to this who are like dying. They've never heard of you. They want to get their own copy, they can sign up for your newsletter at the link in our show notes. And they will get an email from you Tuesday morning kind of being like, “Hey, this is the last day to preorder.” So obviously newsletter, considering that they get first dibs on pre-sales and stuff that is the main event, and the place where people are going to want to be is your list. And again, there's a link to that in the show notes. Other than newsletter, where can people find you and stay in touch with you?
Chase: First, they can go to TarotoftheHolySpectrum.com, which is the website, which I'm in the process of building out a little bit more so it'll have a lot of information. And they can also go to Instagram and my handle is @HolySpectrumTarot.
Lindsay: Incredible. I'm so grateful that you took the time to be on the pod today.
Chase: Of course, I did travel far. (Chase laughs).
Lindsay: You had to come upstairs. And I just want to say a heartfelt thank you for making these decks which I know have helped so many. They've helped me. They've helped our family. I feel like they're a very, very important part of us being in the home we're in, in Portland, our daughter like there's a lot. There's a lot of love and medicine woven in them. And I'm so excited that these things that you've been working so hard on are now getting ready to be birthed into the world more fully. And also, on a more personal note, just thanks for, you know, being my partner through life. And also thank you for so lovingly editing and putting this podcast together, because it quite literally wouldn't exist without you.
Chase: Of course, my pleasure.
Lindsay: If you love this podcast, then you love Chase.
Chase: Yay. Thank you for inspiring the deck. Honestly, your teachings were crucial to a lot of the interps and like inspiration behind their work. So it's a pleasure. Yeah, I love you. Thanks.
Lindsay: Thank you. It’s a pleasure. Yeah, I love you.
Chase: I love you too.
Lindsay: Thanks for being here.
—
[Conclusion]
[1:02:50]