218. Soul Tarot Q&A with Lindsay!
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In honor of Tarot for the Wild Soul course being open for enrollment, this sweet episode is just my A's to your Q's!
Air date:
March 9, 2023
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About the Episode
In honor of Tarot for the Wild Soul course being open for enrollment, this sweet episode is just my A's to your Q's! Listen in as I chat about how to handle Tarot readers who lean heavily on more old paradigm interpretations, how to make sense of the swapped ordering of Justice and Strength in the Major Arcana, how to consider The Emperor as an anchor in moments where we feel shaky and unsure, and how to root our Tarot pulls into helpful medicine that makes practical sense for us (rather than being a more esoteric tool).
Lindsay’s Links:
Enrollment for Tarot for the Wild Soul course is open! Click here to learn more or to sign up!
Download your Ultimate Soul Tarot Card Guide here!
Help Turkey and Syria:
https://www.akut.org.tr/en/donation
Defend the Atlanta Forest and Stop Cop City!
https://defendtheatlantaforest.org
LINKS TO HELP IRAN:
Thank you to Ariana (@azadi.times.three) for sharing these with us!
1. Center for Human Rights in Iran (based in NY, provides news and in-depth reports on human rights abuses in Iran)
2. How to Talk About Iran (a living document from the Iranian Diaspora Collective on Instagram)
3. Persians With Purpose (Educational content, news translated to English, and other Iran resources on Instagram)
Land Acknowledgement
Honoring and acknowledging that this podcast episode was recorded on the unceded land of The Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde, currently called Portland, OR, with the deepest respect to the Kalapuya Tribe, Cowlitz Tribe, and Atfalati Tribe.
Please Note
CW Tags: capitalistic structures, racism, systemic oppression, religious trauma and patriarchal conditioning, birth, postpartum complications, emergency medical care, surgery, and hospitalization
The content in this episode contains references to mentions of capitalistic structures, racism, systemic oppression, religious trauma and patriarchal conditioning, birth, postpartum complications, emergency medical care, surgery, and hospitalization. We have done our best to identify difficult subject matter, but the labels may not be comprehensive for your personal needs. Please honor your knowing and proceed with necessary self-awareness and care.
Transcript
[Introduction]
[0:00:00]
Hello loves, just quickly popping in to share that the Spring 2023 edition of Spiralic Tarot is officially open for enrollment and from now until Monday, March 13th, you can take advantage of a little early bird discount on the course. Spiralic Tarot is a channeled offering that I release four times a year at every Equinox and Solstice, that focuses on the helpful Anchor Cards and Tarot medicine that can be of greatest use to us in the seasons ahead, in the four seasons ahead. This one is, of course, centered on the Spring cycle because we're about to move into that in the Northern Hemisphere.
So participants who sign up for Spiralic Tarot spring edition will receive the following material: a channeled audio download on the Spring Spiral of the year overall; what we can kind of sense into, look at, what the invitations of the spiral are gonna be and the Tarot cards that we can lean into to work with that; the most important Anchor Cards for this season—arguably, we'll talk about The Emperor, The Hierophant and The Lovers which correspond to the three astrological signs inside the Spring Spiral; channeled readings for each of the seasons ahead—so channeled reading for Aries season, Taurus season, and Gemini season respectively; an audio download on the gift of The Wand cards in a Chariot year and how we can most effectively work on that; Wild Soul Tarotscopes for the Spring season as a whole; and a mini workbook with supportive Tarot spreads and lesson prompts to seal in the material.
It's just such a beautiful offering. I love doing it. This particular season is pretty beautiful, and I'm really excited to share all the medicine with everybody. So to sign up for Spiralic Tarot at a special discount, you can just click the link to the offering that's in your show notes. And of course, if you'd like to dive into Tarot for the Wild Soul, and sign up for that, while it's still open for enrollment until March 20th, you can absolutely do that by clicking on the other link in the show notes as well (Lindsay laughs). Thank you so much.
—
(Instrumental intro music)
[0:02:24]
Welcome to Tarot for the Wild Soul, a podcast that explores the Tarot through an inclusive, soul-centered, trauma-informed perspective for growth, healing, and evolution. I'm your host, Lindsay Mack.
—
Hello Loves and welcome back to the podcast. I'm Lindsay Mack, your host, and, as always, I'm so thankful to be gathered here with all of you. Thank you so much for your presence.
We're gonna shake up this week, we're gonna switch it up a little bit, in honor and in the spirit of my one of my signature courses, Tarot for the Wild Soul, being open for enrollment among just the desire to shake it up a bit (Lindsay laughs), for lack of a better way of putting it.
We're doing a Soul Tarot Q&A today. So I'm going to be answering some of your absolutely lovely questions that span a lot of different subjects. And hopefully, there'll be something in here for everyone. And then probably next week, we'll be back to our Anchor Card of the week. So yeah, hopefully, it'll be fun.
[0:03:32]
So we're gonna start with our first question. This one's from Audrey. So Audrey asks:
Hi Lindsay,
First, just want to say thank you so much for everything you do. You've been such an incredible teacher to me in this space.
My question is how we can approach others who use Tarot in a way that may appear to be less soul-guided and more of a predictive tool with rote guidebook meanings or seem to view the deck as a deck of Old Maid cards (lol).
In parentheses, they put “lol” (Lindsay laughs).
In your interviews with other readers, or when speaking on other people's interpretations, you always seem so good at approaching things with “no way is wrong”, which I would like to feel, but sometimes it's hard for me not to cringe when people read cards with definitions so clearly from old school guidebooks, with no touching in, or when they treat Tarot like a party trick.
I've thought so many times about getting a Tarot reading from someone else, but I'm so afraid this would happen that I can't bring myself to. Any tips on how you stay open to others’ interpretations, even when they vary wildly from your own knowing, even when it can feel like a mockery of a spiritual tool you hold close?
Thank you so much again.
Well, so I feel like there's a couple things that I'd love to speak to in this. Regarding me, one of the reasons that I approach things from a no-way-is-wrong position is because I understand that my way of looking at the cards is, honestly, very unique. And sometimes it's not like my interpretations are so different — I think it's the way I go about using the deck that's different. That was born of my own stuff, so it's not like I have someone to look to as a mentor inside of that space.
Most people will, even when they feel like they're being inclusive, they're being whatever, it's still kind of old school. I'm not saying I don't have issues or problems — trust and believe — or that I don't need to be called in about some things, or I don't get it wrong, so, know that. But as far as what you're talking about, like, yeah, it's different, and it's hard. And there are lots of people that I've met, colleagues and other people, who I'm like, maybe? And it's like, no (Lindsay laughs).
Because I'm a teacher at heart, and because I love to teach, I really believe that we're all in our own place of learning. So, out of respect for guests, and out of respect for colleagues, and out of respect for my students, I've really learned that I'm not here to teach them, I'm here to be curious, you know? And if there is an ability or an inroad or a question like, “Well, Lindsay, what do you think about this?” then I'll offer it, but that is just my way.
I'm not here to lecture anyone. I'm not. I'm just not, you know? This is my podcast. So when I speak about meanings, sometimes I will be really kind of clear about more of the old style of interpreting it and how I think that's not really particularly useful, or it might actually be wrapped up in a veil of capitalism or racism or oppressive-structuring, and we don't even know.
[0:07:12]
The other reason that I think I have that very open approach is because I know that it's very difficult for everyone to believe that they can think critically about this tool. There is an assumption like, well, it's been done. Like the way that we interpret the Tarot, this is the way we interpret the Tarot, instead of feeling that it's the tool of the people — which I do. Which is why I feel like, you know, like, if I'm in a position of correction or of giving someone a note, or if I'm being asked directly, then I'll offer my two cents. But if not, it just doesn't always feel appropriate, and it just speaks to more of my willingness to let people be—like, where they are in their process.
Now, I hear you on getting readings from people: it is very hard, even when people have the same frame of mind as you. Not everybody is for everyone. I've certainly not been for everyone I've read for, you know? So I think when you receive a reading from someone, if you find somebody who is your style, or seems to speak the same language as you do, if they're not matching what you're wanting, I think just keep that neutral space and take what works, and leave what doesn't. There have been times I've worked with people where, like, from sentence to sentence, there are things that I can feel in what they're saying, and I'm like, this is totally their own thing. It does not apply to me, but like, whoa, that was a real gem, you know?
Now, if someone's actively being harmful, then I would say, if you paid money, then like, yeah, tell them. Email them and be like, “This is how this landed with me, and I really want you to know that it could be another way,” (Lindsay laughs) you know, or like, “I, you know, just wanted you to know that this is like how this landed with me,” or you can just walk away. You can just move away from it and be like, that is not the person for me.
I don't think you need to teach anyone anything. Like, I don't, as a teacher, like I don't think we need to show like this way of working with Tarot. It's not for everybody. Not everyone — and I say this with tremendous respect. I don't say this with, like, my nose in the air or anything — not everyone wants a soul-led reading. They want to be told what to do. They want to know if they're going to meet somebody. They want something different. This way is not for everyone. So if they're not open or available, then they're not for me. Like, I'm not going to spend time tutoring them or lecturing them or calling them in when they're not my people, even my colleagues, like, they're doing their own thing, you know, period (Lindsay laughs).
So I do like to be politic because I think there are some people, like that's where they start. So, you know, and I think there are people who don't practice this kind of style of reading. I mean, it's a unique style because I developed it, but like there are a lot of people who don't, who aren't kind of in this general view, who I have tremendous respect for, even if, you know, they don't necessarily have the same things to say, as I do about a card. So I think we can like, we can hold a really open space.
[0:11:05]
Now, I think when you're reading for someone, or you're getting read for, and it feels just really tough, and it's a situation where you're reading for somebody, and they're kind of telling you your interpretations are wrong, or they're like, “This isn't like a good reading,” or, you know, whatever, or if you're getting read for, and it's just not great, you can just walk away.
No reader holds any power over you, period. No one is intuitive to the point where they know something about you that you have to know like, that's all. Like, a lot of us have those stories and those wounds around like, “Oh, this powerful person knows something about me that I don't know about myself, they're seeing something that I'm not.” They're not, you know?
The best intuitives I've ever worked with don't make those kinds of proclamations, they hold the space and witness me or others and what they're going through and let them figure it out. And when there's something that's appropriate to comment on, there can be. But even great intuitives sometimes get it wrong. You know, we're all doing what we can, when we can. So if you are on the receiving end of a reading like that, just say, “I'm so sorry, thank you so much for your time, this really isn't for me, I appreciate you,” and then walk out. Like, there's nothing to say, like, just walk out, it's a waste of time.
If you're giving a reading to someone else, and they're coaching you, lecturing, you, really, the best way to handle that is to pause, come back to your own center, and just say, “Hey, I'm offering the reading. I'm not really available for feedback like this right now. If you would like to continue with this reading, I really ask that you be open to interpretations that are different from ones that you've heard, because Tarot is really a very flexible tool. And really, the more personal we make it to ourselves, the more expansive a tool it can be. So I understand that you've learned and studied in this particular style — that's not my style. That's not… it doesn't need to be my style.
My style doesn't need to be your style. It's okay. If you feel open to receiving whatever medicine might resonate for you in this reading, I'd like to continue, and I ask that you be receptive to it without giving me notes. And if you don't feel that it's for you, I just suggest we stop.”
And then just be open to whatever they have to say. Even if they're like, “This was a bad reading,” be like, “Okay, have a nice day!” Like, you know, this way of reading isn't the right way. It's just one way, you know? Now, I don't want to put it like, oh, not everyone's here, but everybody's in a different space. And I know that, you know? I don't know that there's a great answer (Lindsay laughs).
[0:14:04]
But, you know, I've been in the really privileged position to have students who are very much beginners on their journey read for me, and they're always so strong, those readings. And I know, they feel — because they've expressed to me — like, a little nervous about reading for me. But I'm just not that kind of person.
Like, I assume I can get an excellent reading from anyone, be they a beginner, whatever. In fact, I think sometimes beginners, it's folks who are like, really deep in like, they're, like, have their heels really, really dug in like, “this is the way to read,” that sometimes the readings can actually be a little tricky. Beginners have, I've been so privileged to get excellent readings from students when I've been in a place of practicing, like going back and forth.
And I've been in positions where I've gotten readings from friends or colleagues or other people that are just not on point, but there's something usually in there to take away. I just don't care. I don't mind. Like, I know my own, really.
And I'm also not someone who, if somebody pulls Page of Pentacles, and it's completely different than how I work with it, I'm really genuinely open (Lindsay laughs). Like, I really am! Like, I am down to receive medicine, and I'm not precious about how it comes to me. So I trust my own knowing and I'm able to hold what works and leave behind what doesn't.
So yeah, I think just, like, trust and have confidence in your own center, that you can walk away if it doesn't feel right, you can hang out. Even if, like, 70% of it is sort of not how you would put it, there might be really something in that 30%. And if people don't like the way you read, that's okay. Like, I am not for everybody. So I assume you aren't, too. Like, we're not all supposed to be for everybody. And it’s alright.
So yeah, I don't know where that comes from in me, but it works because it allows me to receive medicine in really great places, and it also allows me to be able to have the critical thoughtfulness. Like, in the same breath, if someone says something that I'm like, that is really out there, that's like, totally not true for me, I feel like I don't take it on, you know?
[0:16:33]
So, it's okay if they treat Tarot like a party trick. That's okay. Like, maybe they're starting there, you know. You don't know where they'll be with their practice in 20 years. Like, where I have, if you've been listening to this podcast for, like, since it began, there are certain things that haven't really changed, but like, oh my word have I changed! People change, and that's what I assume—if I meet somebody who, you know, is in a different place—and like, we can be in different places without feeling harmful.
You know, I think there are also certain closed practices with the Tarot that are highly predictive, that, like, aren't really mine, to even comment on, you know? It's like if certain people read in particular ways that are closed to their culture, community, et cetera, like, they can do that. The people who benefit from that, or don't benefit from that, can find them. And ideally, there isn't harm or, you know, being done, or anyone being taken advantage of. I would say that's the line I draw, is like if there's true harm, true, like doomsday scenario, to get money, like scamming, like, that's unacceptable. And I will stand up for that, like the Aries I am. But for the most part, if someone's just really kind of still caught in devotion to the old way of reading and like, you know, they are. And I don't want to say it's okay, it's just what it is, you know?
So yeah, I would say, I think it's okay to not put that much pressure on your reader. As long as you know that they are safe — I mean, nobody can be 100% safe — but that they are respectful and humble, and that they are rooted in their own practice, then probably the reading you get will be great, even if it doesn't all totally feel like the way you do it, you know?
Hopefully, this helps, but I hear you. It's, you know, that's just where I come from, as just approaching with teacher-like curiosity (Lindsay laughs), like I'm not supposed to make or change what people are doing. It's just I'm really genuinely curious about where they're at. So I hope that helps, and I really appreciate your question.
[0:19:03]
The next question is from Alexis. Alexis asks:
Hello, I'm new to the podcast.
Hello, Alexis, welcome.
So I may be asking a question already answered, but I'm curious about the flipping of Justice and Strength cards. My deck has these cards in their original positions, and it's how I interpret them. Have you ever experienced any issues regarding this?
Thank you for taking the time to answer listener questions. I'm thankful for your knowledge and experience.
Thanks so much, Alexis. I'm happy you're here!
So I feel like we have touched on this in the pod, but I feel like it's a wonderful question and great for anybody who would like a refresher. So this is like the most abridged recap: so sometimes, Strength and Justice, cards Eight and Eleven, are flipped in certain decks, respectively, corresponding to either the number Eight or number Eleven. In other words, sometimes Justice is Eight, sometimes Justice is Eleven, and vice versa with Strength.
So, in the Marseilles Tarot—which is one of the first Tarot decks ever made, really, that became very, very popular—Justice was number Eight. So Justice started as Eight. Now, if we really want to get into the nitty-gritty, there are, literally, hundreds of documented orders of the Major Arcana. Literally, like, there's one where like, I remember Judgement is up in like, I want to say Judgement was, like, number Ten, like, very different ordering, they had different names.
But Marseilles… there are certain Tarot decks when they were created, like the Visconti Tarot and the Marseilles Tarot, those are, like, very impactful decks that, when made, we sort of mark time-based on sort of where the collective was, where we were in time, where we were, you know, what the temperature was on these things. And Marseille was a big deal when it was made. So Justice was Eight in that card, and the Marseilles is pre-Rider-Waite. So for a lot of people, understandably, this is the original placement, right? Justice being Eight.
[0:21:25]
Arthur Waite, who was a member of the Golden Dawn and who created the Smith-Rider-Waite Tarot with Pamela Coleman Smith flipped that, you know, put Justice as Eleven and Strength as Eight, in order to better correspond to the Zodiac signs, which is very valid. And I know that Arthur Waite felt that—I'm really, again, this is heavy duty abridging—but, essentially, felt that putting Strength as Eight and Justice as Eleven unlocked the secrets of the Arcana, and like allowed everyone to receive them. Whereas, I think folks like Aleister Crowley, who made the Thoth deck, were like, “I don't want these secrets to unlock, so I'm going to flip them back.” So a lot of people are very pro, are very passionate about Justice being in line with Eight, especially if they come from a personal lineage where they've started with Marseilles Tarot, et cetera.
So, for many years, Strength was Eight, Justice was Eleven. If decks are typically made inside of a Smith Rider-Waite, even kind of a distant lineage, there's devotion to that. Some people, it’s sort of an act of reclamation or rebellion, or just because, again, they worked with a deck where, you know, they were, you know (Lindsay laughs). Like, again, there's some kind of lineage there that will switch them back to the original order.
So, there's no right way to work with Justice and Strength. And some decks have Justice as Eight, some have it as Eleven, and vice versa. I think that what is so wonderful is that there is, to me, I feel like both are equally powerful, and both are equally valid. I feel that with the Smith-Rider-Waite ordering of Strength is Eight and Justice is Eleven, there's some really, really awesome things that happen. Yes, things are in astrological order—that's number one. Number two, is that Justice splits the Majors perfectly. And there's something to be said about that with Justice as Eleven because the power of of the Justice card, what it represents, the idea that that's the middle point, really lets us know like this is the heart of the journey, being willing to see what needs to be seen plainly; not what we want it to be or wish it to be or hope it could be, but what is. And only when we really see what is can we actually be true agents of change and revolution and evolution, right?
[0:24:42]
So, to me, with Justice as Eight, it's kind of the heart of the journey of the Major Arcana, like we're learning how to see. But if you consider Strength card as number Eleven then what we're saying is that the heart of the journey of the Major Arcana is being able to come home to ourselves, embracing ourselves, and witnessing ourselves, in the midst of something kind of uncomfortable and intense.
So, in that regard, it's essentially setting up the journey of the Majors as a true journey of the heart; like a true journey of the heart, where with every card we're being called to place our hand on that inner lion and really approach it from the heart. Whereas, with every card in, let's say, a Justice-centered ordering, with Justice as Eleven, it might be that with every card we're really seeking to create as much balance as possible inside of, let's say, an imbalance or a funky thing, or, you know, really trying to get to the center of what's going on, like dropping in as far as we can go, right?
There's also something really, really powerful to me about moving from The Chariot to Justice, as opposed to The Chariot to Strength. Because if we move to The Chariot and then move to card Eight, and it's Justice, there's a beautiful, beautiful opportunity there to basically say, okay, I've left The Chariot. Now, let me reflect, let me review, let me get my kind of Libra-ness in order here. Like, what did I learn? Where am I? And then from there, you have Hermit and then Wheel of Fortune and then Strength. Like, that's powerful. And there's, I mean, in a way, I think that's almost more powerful than Strength as Eight and Justice as Eleven.
So, in short, no wrong way to do it, no right way. As I said, there were a zillion orders of the Majors until these two kind of became, like, where all the debris settled to the bottom. Like these two orderings, with Justice and Strength interchangeable in certain decks, really, like, set out to be like the two. But you, tomorrow, could create a Tarot deck where everything is totally — you could start with Judgement, you know? Like, there are no rules. As long as you see it, and as long as you can back up why, there's nothing saying that you have to follow a Golden Dawn ordering or a Marseilles ordering.
So hopefully, that helps with some of the ways that it can be really powerful to have your Justice as Eight and Strength as Eleven and vice versa. I think there's medicine in both, and I'm really glad you asked the question. Thanks for tuning in with me about it.
[0:28:01]
Okay, this third question is from Anonymous and Anonymous asks:
Dear Lindsay,
Thank you so much for being such an important teacher to me.
Thanks for being here, Anonymous.
I wanted to write you that your podcast that was released today, January 27 — like many weeks — aligned with my life and with frightening precision. I initiated a special friend breakup yesterday which was extremely difficult to initiate, and my heartbreak is big as myth.
Wow. Beautiful.
As I read Tarot for help with action before the break-up call, I pulled Emperor multiple times. I'm struggling to apply the soul interpretation of The Emperor to a moment where decision-making is unclear. Do you have any thoughts on working with strong energy during a moment of indecision or panic? I also wrote a beautiful personal essay about the relationship ending, and it seems my writing has blossomed since the breakup.
Thank you for trusting me with this question. And thank you, and I'm really witnessing you in the deep, deep work that it takes to move through a friendship breakup. And I think, in general, in our society, unfortunately, friend breakups can be so fraught, so intense, sometimes even more so than romantic or, you know, breakups with a lover or sexual partner, or a partner related to some kind of intimacy. So I think you naming that and normalizing it and honoring it is huge, and I'm really witnessing you in it.
[0:29:30]
Okay, so The Emperor often can come to us in moments of great indecision. Why? Because the cards really show up as Anchors, things that we can call upon for support, for medicine, for nourishment, in moments when we really, really need them. So, in a moment where you felt nervous and scared, and you weren't exactly sure what to say, your footing felt a little bit unsure, the Emperor came to you, as an Anchor, and said, “I will be here with you.”
And so in those moments, what we can do, in whatever way like feels right for us, we can root in very, very deeply to ourselves and say, “Okay, I want to call in The Emperor in me. So while I might not know what to say, I can still show up with a very steady root system, standing in my experience, inside of this difficult conversation.”
In fact, I'll share, whether it's interesting or helpful to you, I mean, I hope it is, that pretty much every tough conversation I've had to have like, over the years, many years with like, a member of my team, or with somebody that I just felt really nervous, The Emperor has come forward. And it's helped me to be able to actually speak like the whole truth, to be like, “I'm showing up to this feeling a little shaky right now. And I just want to name the experience I'm having that this, this, and this affected me this way, you know, and this was, again, my experience of it. And I would like to hear your experience of it, and like, why this happened,” or, you know? If we're not looking for an apology, then we can just say, “It's okay, I just want to let you know how this lands.”
It's about showing up as Emperor. An emperor is not a dictator, by any means. Emperor is not a controller, Emperor doesn't need anyone to obey or listen. Emperor is the tree. It is the mountain. It is, right? And so we don't need to pretend that we know everything, we just need to be the mountain, and say, “Okay, I'm large enough to hold my feelings and my experience about this, and I get to show up as an Emperor. I don't need to make anyone do anything. I don't need to force an apology. I don't need, like—nothing like that. I just want to tell folks where, like, what's going on inside of my experience, my feelings.”
[0:32:25]
And another really important thing about Emperor inside of a kind of dynamic like a breakup or a friend breakup, or a tough conversation is that Emperor is Aries. So Aries is all about exploration of the self and using journeys, that one goes on inside of one's own life experience as kind of teaching posts, you know? I move through something then I teach what I've moved through, right? That's not all Aries, but it's a lot of them, you know?
So, that being said, there is something really, really beautiful about Emperor showing up in moments like this, because it essentially is a gentle bolster around your experience being valid. It doesn't mean everyone has to listen to what we have to say. It doesn't mean everyone has to like it. It doesn't mean we have to be right or told that we're right, or someone has to say “I was wrong, you are right.” Again, The Emperor doesn't dictate, it doesn't control. There's no tight grip here with Emperor at all, in spite of what you may have been told. It's just not true about this card.
So it also says your experience is valid, and you have the right to share it. And if this person is important enough to you, like, it's important to share, you know? So that's sort of my two cents on why it might have shown up for you. And I certainly have seen that it has shown up for me in moments where I've been really shaky, even more than Strength.
And Strength is often a card that can show up inside of, like, whew, there's a tough moment here. But if we can hold to the heart, if we can show up open-hearted, as safe, you know, in a safe way for us, it will go better than if we show up hard and defended, right? But I see Emperor more as an Anchor inside of these kinds of situations, than I see Strength for myself, personally. So for whatever this is worth to you. That's my two cents on it. And I'm really grateful that you wrote me.
[0:34:47]
Okay, this last question is from Lynn, and Lynn asks,
Hello Lindsay and team.
I am greatly enjoying the tools you have created. I'm about one second into learning about Tarot and a half second into listening to your podcast. Just trying to find some direction when everything feels so rudderless. I am feeling frustrated by the multiverse of interpretations when it comes to looking into the ocean that is Tarot.
I struggle with feeling drawn to “believe” cards that speak to peace and happiness or wishes fulfilled, especially when they fall under inquiries you have prompted us in your 2023 Threshold offering—super great, by the way.
What do you do when the card opens us to messages of prosperity, joy, family, contentment, and harmony, when the last three years—for most, a lifetime—for some, have been filled with such turmoil? It's hard for me to buy in, you know?
In addition, each of the spreads presented there is a question around what am I ready to release, clear, and let go of, and I'm flummoxed with my pulls around these curiosities that reflect High Priestess, The Devil reversed, and Queen of Pentacles. My brain-tuition
Love that.
— quickly converts “letting go of” (as in dismissing and shedding) into “releasing into” (as in, “becoming more of”). So I began to read the cards as a billboard for advertising the benefit of living more authentically and leaning into the qualities and characteristics of these cards.
But as somebody who’s really new and a bit cynical toward this engagement with spirituality, my inner judge can also craft these responses into frivolous play that distracts me from my urban, modern, midlife responsibilities — mainly paying bills, making sure my kids feel loved, and wondering how I got here.
I loved this question. I loved it when I read it, I love it now.
[0:36:25]
Umm. Okay, let's start with the first part: I want to just start—as I often do—this is Lindsay's personal opinion, born of my experience, my way of teaching and seeing the world. So it does not have to match yours. It does not have to match someone else's. It's okay if we disagree, you know. I just want to, like, I just want to start there. So what I would—let's start with the first part:
There are really no cards that truly speak to what you label as prosperity, joy, family, contentment, and harmony. That is very much a part of a very standard, older guard of interpretations that I take gentle and respectful issue with because no Tarot card can predict or promise that kind of experience. We also all define prosperity, family, joy, contentment, and harmony completely differently.
And the way that these cards have been relegated to these experiences, these states of mind, have been largely heteronormative, capitalistic, like the standard American family with two and a half kids and a house, whatever. And that's just not most people. That's not all people… it doesn't like, you know (Lindsay laughs)? So there can be joy and prosperity with very little in the bank, and there can be family without any children, right? I don't know if contentment exists. Like, it's life, again, you know?
So what I would say is that with my work, particularly, there is often kind of a rewilding process that happens, where we are called to go down to the like, the root of the root, and be like, “Who says these cards promise this? Like, where did I actually hear that? Is that true for me?” And what I want to reflect back to you is that it seems that it is not true for you, which means you may disregard it. You don't need to carry the torch that these cards mean joy, or family, or a lover’s coming, or whatever the fuck, you know? It's, I don't think it's ever been true.
So, again, a lot of the way that Tarot has been approached, for pretty much the entirety of the time it's been in existence, has been super binary; good or bad. It's been informed from a very old and dying family structure with, again, a lot of systemic oppression. A lot of systemic oppression. How can we speak about Ten of Pentacles in a time when people can't fucking buy groceries? It's never made sense. It's never made sense. The Ten of Pentacles is about, like, a windfall or like a bunch of money. Like it just isn't! We can't ever know that. We just can't, you know?
And so, we may release it, because it's not the truth of the card. It's stuff that other human beings just like you and me have said, and other people have bought into because nobody feels comfortable questioning authority, and nobody feels comfortable questioning spiritual teachings, as though they're like handed down from God or something. And it's a leftover and a holdover from a lot of religious trauma and patriarchal shit, that we're all untying.
[0:40:44]
So those cards that you're pulling likely do not speak to that to begin with. They're so much more vast and complex and spiralic and holographic than that. So I don't think you should believe them, if they're promising you that (Lindsay laughs). It should be hard for you to buy in. I'm here talking about this because I felt the way you did when I was a little kid (Lindsay laughs)! So I'm right there with you. I'm right there with you. When I first got started with the Tarot, I was like, what the fuck? As a young kid, I was like, this isn't my truth. I don't, you know, so I hear ya, I really, really do.
So that's my first invitation to you is to check in with yourself: look at the bones of something. Like, for example, if you pull Six of Wands, which, historically, is like a victory, a win, then what you want to do is be like, “Okay, you know, this is a Six” — I know you're like very, very much, you're like at a baby, baby step of your learning — but “okay, this is Six. You know, some people say that Sixes are about balance and about expansion, and other people say certain things. Let me check in with these meanings and see what makes sense to me. And I get to leave behind what doesn't make sense, and I get to hang out with what is. And then I'm going to look into what Wands mean to these couple folks that I trust and decide: do I agree, do I not agree?”
You're allowed to not agree. It's as simple as that, really, you know? Not all Tarot teachers, not all interpreters of the Tarot are born alike; no one's better or worse. Like, there are a lot of people who those more old school definitions like they work for them, or they work for them right now, you know? They've never really worked for me, they clearly don't work for you. So, you know, like, just see what it feels, to sense into those structures.
And like, for example, in the way that I teach, which is very specific to me, again, Sixes, to me, are about kind of expansions, and what happens after we move through the contraction of the Five. And Wands are ruled by Fire and they have to do with the energetic capacity, like they’re spoons, essentially, that we have within our bodies. Like, what do we have the capacity to do? What are we, how are we tending to these bodies? How are we moving through space with ourselves, rather than dragging ourselves right?
So if we’re looking at Six of Wands then to me what makes sense is that we are, in some way, experiencing some sort of expansiveness around our capacity. And to me, a lot of the time, this card really resonates as an invitation to deeply celebrate, congratulate, and honor ourselves, even if today we just took a shower. I think sometimes, for a lot of us, that's a really big deal. So I think starting there is really great. Now, there's some people who will take Six of Wands here or there, and if those things resonate with you, then you get to weave them into your roster of ways of looking at it.
Essentially, how you weed through the ocean of Tarot interpretations is essentially that: if it doesn't resonate with you, if it feels like it's a shitty interpretation, if it feels oppressive, if it feels like it makes absolutely no sense, then it's not your truth, and you do away with it. It's as simple as that. You just feel in, you just look, literally, read what people—I can tell in two seconds upon reading someone's work like, oh, this is great, totally not what I would do. It doesn't need to be, but this is a really cool take on it. And then there are other people that I'm like, this is literally copied out of a book written like 40 years ago, and this person has not taken it much further.
And sometimes I'll go even further, and I'm like, if there's something to learn, and if there's something wonderful and delightful, like even a little snippet, and I will delight in that and celebrate it. But if there's just like nothing to take from it, then I move away. That's it. You can do the same thing. Exactly the same thing. So that's number one.
[0:45:31]
Number two. Okay. So, for me I take “what am I ready to release, clear, let go of,” as just kind of like a clarifier for me about what season is falling away and what season is coming forward. And there's no good or bad to it. I don't have to make Spring lead way to Summer. It just does. So to me, that's the spirit that I approach what am I ready to release, what am I ready to sort of embrace and fold in. So that way I know that…
Let's say I'm releasing High Priestess, and I'm moving into Three of Swords. That doesn't mean I'm releasing this magical High Priestess energy and moving into shitty Three of Swords, right (Lindsay laughs)? It means that, to me, there's likely been, whether I've been aware of it or not, some presence, some High Priestess presencing or representation in my life. And High Priestess is really just cultivating more time to tune in to the inner voice, and that can be five minutes, it can be an hour, whatever, but honoring our own intuitive ebb and flow.
I've shared this a couple of times on the pod — and just like trigger warning: there's a little bit of a mention of surgery here. But earlier in mid-2022, after I gave birth, I had a couple of emergency surgeries and could not hear anything, could not tune in. These things were too humongous. It was like when you're laying literally in a hospital bed wondering like, what's wrong? Are you going to get the treatment you need, or, you know, am I going to be okay? Like these terror thoughts, you know? You’re not tuning in; like, the nervous system’s too loud.
So Spirit, and the channel change, depending on—like the inner channel—they change depending on what's going on. Right now, I'm in a season in my life where I have a one-year-old kid, again, like I'm my family's breadwinner. I'm trying to juggle, like, work and being really present with my child and my partner, and like, attempting to, like, take marginal care of myself, like, you know? There's—and I'm not complaining, totally not complaining. And I'm not in my office, at my altar, like doing the whole thing. I pull cards as I need them, and that feels totally good with me.
So basically, High Priestess—first of all, our practice gets to be whatever it gets to be, and you're describing like your responsibilities in life. And the only job you really have is to figure out whether, or if, Tarot has a place inside of that container. It doesn't need to happen separately or outside. It's supposed to come with you and support where you're at and what you're doing, right? I think, anyway.
[0:48:48]
So High Priestess is just, it might have been a situation where we went through something kind of heightened or kind of, you know, low, and our intuition, like we felt like we couldn't quite perceive in the same way or we don't even like know what intuition is. So even if that came up as the briefest of sprinkles, it was maybe there. It's also a Major Arcana card. So it's more about surrender than it is about empowered action. So if you're letting go of a card like that, you don't need to do anything. It's letting go of you. And it's not going away, it's just floating more into the background.
And then your attention gets to go to Three of Swords, which is a Minor, so we know this is a card that we dig into. We use our hands, we're going to be in there. It's less about surrender than it is about engagement, right? We engage with the Minors. The Three of Swords doesn't dictate a time where it's going to be heartbreak. It dictates a time when, we just talked about Three of Swords a couple of weeks ago, where we are being invited inside of any situation you could think of—misunderstanding with our partner, we get a little short with our kid, we realize we’ve forgotten an important meeting—whatever that first kind of situation, that inciting incident, we have a tendency to sweep totally past those raw feelings of regret or pain or sorrow, or betrayal, or whatever it is, and go right to blame or action or just like closing the book on it.
And Three of Swords whether the volume is so, so low on the situation, or very high and very clear, just says, can you honor? Can you just be there for your heart? Can you just say, “Hey, this hurts?” Like, literally, that's it: an acknowledgement, and that simple act has the ability to create so much more intimacy with ourselves. So that's kind of it, you know?
And I understand that there's—maybe inside of those kinds of prompts—there's a desire or an impulse to, to, like, make way greater work or meaning of it, and to me, it feels very fast and fluid. It's just kind of like, you know, “Oh, this card is cycling out, this one's cycling in, and nothing is good or bad, you know?” Yeah, it doesn't need to distract you from your life. That's definitely not the point of a Tarot practice. It's just here to help be an Anchor inside of the day-to-day, inside of paying bills, inside of being with your kids. And if it works for you, it does. And if it doesn't, it doesn't. But I'm really glad that you asked these questions.
And I would love to hear from any and all of you—and, specifically, you, Lynn—to just see, like, did this resonate? Does it make sense? Hopefully, it's giving you a lot more spacious permission to kind of, like it sounds like what you're coming across, like, it feels like you're just… I really want to give you permission to make this a tool that fits into your life as it is, and to know that you have the power and the ability to say, “I'm going to read what these three/four people have to say about this card, but ultimately, the most important thing is what makes sense to me.” You have the power and the ability to do that. All of us do. That's the whole point, you know?
So I know you're just, just in your baby step phase of learning. Even in your baby step phase of learning, I encourage you to really utilize your autonomy and the common sense that is clearly so present in you about what makes sense to you and what doesn't, and discarding what doesn't and what isn't useful.
—
[Conclusion]
[0:53:05]
Thank you so much for trusting me with these questions, Loves. It's such an honor to be here for you and to listen and to do my best with answering. Yeah, I really am excited to touch in with you next week. And until that time comes please take exquisite care of yourselves.
And if you have questions that you want me to answer on a future Q&A, whether in a journal post or in this kind of a roundup, please send them my way by clicking the link in the show notes: Ask Lindsay. Yeah, okay. Take care. Until next time.