208. Your Year Ahead with Jessica Lanyadoo!
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What better way to ring in a new year than to chat it up with my pal, Jessica Lanyadoo, astrologer extraordinaire and host of Ghost of a Podcast!
Air date:
December 23, 2022
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About the Episode
In this episode, Jessica and I chat about all things Tarot, our Chariot year in 2023, our personal cards for the year ahead, releasing The Lovers card in 2022. Jessica also offers us an amazing mini forecast about some of the biggest transits of 2023, and so much more!
Jessica’s Links:
Jessica’s Podcast: ghostofapodcast.com
For horoscopes, classes, and other free goodies: lovelanyadoo.com
Learn with me and get exclusive content:patreon.com/JessicaLanyadoo
Lindsay’s Links:
Sign up for The Threshold, our channeled guide around 2023 and The Chariot card!
Download your Ultimate Soul Tarot Card Guide here!
Land Acknowledgement
Honoring and acknowledging that this podcast episode was recorded on the unceded land of The Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde, currently called Portland, OR, with the deepest respect to the Kalapuya Tribe, Cowlitz Tribe, and Atfalati Tribe.
Please Note
CW Tags: birth, death, parenthood, anxiety, postpartum complications, medical emergencies, illness, trauma related to industrialized beauty standards, inherited generational patterns and patriarchal conditioning, toxic capitalistic structures & economic/systemic marginalization
The content in this episode contains references to mentions of birth, death, parenthood, anxiety, postpartum complications, medical emergencies, illness, trauma related to industrialized beauty standards, inherited generational patterns and patriarchal conditioning, toxic capitalistic structures & economic/systemic marginalization. We have done our best to identify difficult subject matter, but the labels may not be comprehensive for your personal needs. Please honor your knowing and proceed with necessary self-awareness and care.
Transcript
[Introduction]
[0:00:00]
—
Lindsay: Hello, Loves, and welcome back to the podcast. It's such a joy and an honor to be gathered with you, as always. Thank you so much for being here. I hope, if you're celebrating right now, whatever you're celebrating right now, that this finds you in a very warm, cozy, loved-up place. I hope that you are as comfortable or as nourished as you could possibly wish to be.
In honor of the New Moon in Capricorn, in honor of this holiday season, in honor of the Solstice, I thought, who better than to have on the podcast than the Queen of Capricorn, Jessica fucking Lanyadoo, who I love and adore. I was so excited that she was delighted, equally delighted, to come onto the podcast and share her wit and her wisdom, her brilliance.
This is a conversation four years in the making. Jessica reached out to me four years ago. We could never make it happen. She is quite literally top of the list and has been for so long, and we were, just recently, I was just recently on her amazing podcast, Ghost of a Podcast, and I knew it was like end of the year, little bit on 2023, that's exactly what I wanted to talk to her about.
We had just such a lovely conversation. We talked about Chariot. We talk about Lovers. We talk about Jessica's sort of beautiful, little, tasting menu of, like, the top, top transits to pay attention to. We just shoot the breeze, shoot the breeze, and hang out and talk, and it was so nice.
And also, thank God, Jessica was able to send me the audio of her actually speaking because we are still going through some weird audio issues with interviewing folks. So we have a couple of folks who we actually, I actually interviewed a couple months ago. Jessica still sort of has been waiting the longest, but I'm super committed to figuring out whatever those weird issues are so that we can re-record those interviews, and we can have some more great conversations with folks about Tarot and astrology and the like.
[0:02:26]
Lindsay: Um, if you don't know Jessica — and I imagine that you likely do because Jessica is, I think, a fairly legendary person — I want to read to you a little bit about her:
With more than 25 years of experience as a consulting astrologer, psychic, medium, and Tarot reader, Jessica Lanyadoo believes no topic is off limits or unworthy of kindness. Lanyadoo was the host of the popular weekly astrology and advice show, Ghost of a Podcast, the author of Astrology for Real Relationships, and the creator of the Astrologer’s Pro Tool: Astrology for Days. Jessica can be found all over the internet and at lovelanyadoo.com. You can learn with her at her Patreon, which is patreon.com/jessicalanyadoo.
So, again, I feel like Jessica probably bears no introduction, and yet, why not? Of course, we're gonna formally introduce her (Lindsay laughs). I hope you love our conversation, I hope that it delights you, I hope that you got a lot out of it.
I really, really hope that if you have not signed up for my offering, The Threshold, which is a channeled deep dive into 2023 and into The Chariot year, I hope, honestly, after this conversation, you consider it, because it's a major year, and the whole offering is really rooted in a lot of very warm and very on point support for moving into such an intense year. So I hope that you enjoy what we share about it and more. And I hope that no matter what, again, no matter how you're celebrating, no matter how you're greeting these days, I hope that it's really happy. You deserve it.
Okay, keep listening for my conversation with Jessica, and I will be so excited to connect with all of you again next week for our deep dive into January's Monthly Medicine episode. So until then, please take exquisite care of yourselves.
—
(Instrumental intro music)
Lindsay: Welcome to Tarot for the Wild Soul, a podcast that explores the Tarot through an inclusive, soul-centered, trauma-informed perspective for growth, healing, and evolution. I'm your host, Lindsay Mack.
—
[0:04:54]
Lindsay: Oh my god, Jessica Lanyadoo, welcome to Tarot for the Wild Soul!
Jessica: Ugh, thank you for having me! (Lindsay laughs) We've tried. We've been trying to make this happen for…
Lindsay: Four years.
Jessica: Has it been four whole years?
Lindsay: Four years.
Jessica: I mean…
Lindsay: You emailed me. I remember when the first exchange about this was, so long ago (Jessica laughs), and I'm so catch-as-catch-can with guests. I remember I've been emailing you for four years being like, “I'm so sorry. I'm on a pause with guests, but you're right at the top of the list. I'm so sorry!”
And then finally, I was like, if I'm even gonna start, like, I've had such weird, weird audio issues with guests. That's why I was, like, I'm recording in 60 different places. You're gonna record, everyone's gonna record, just to make sure. (Lindsay laughs) It's like, yeah, it's been years!
Jessica: I just feel like it's well worth the wait. I mean, not to oversell it before it's happened, but like, it's well worth the wait, I feel (Lindsay laughs).
Lindsay: I agree! And it's incredible because Ghost wasn't even, like, a twinkle, I don't think.
Jessica: I think it was maybe, literally, a twinkle. Like, I don't actually know. August of 2018, I think, but also, I forget.
Lindsay: Yeah, I mean, that's valid. It was a long time ago.
Jessica: It was a long time ago (both laugh). It was before the plague. So time is like, it's like four years per every six months now, so it's confusing.
[0:06:18]
Lindsay: Yeah, how the hell are you? I feel like you've been doing so much. You have an installation in a museum in Oakland?
Jessica: I do.
Lindsay: How are you? What's new?
Jessica: I am good, thank you. And thank you for mentioning that because it's something that, whenever I think about it, I get really, like, “Oh my god, I have an installation in a museum in Oakland.”
Lindsay: It's epic.
Jessica: It is epic. It's such an honor. And it is the first time I've done any visual art in my life, so it's kind of like a big stage upon which to experiment (Jessica laughs). I mean, I shouldn't completely say that. I have created portals.
So at the Oakland Museum, I created a portal, and I have a couple portals in my home, so I guess I have, but I don't really consider that art. I consider that, like, creating a spiritual tool that happens to be visual, a little.
Lindsay: But not art (Lindsay laughs). I hear what you're saying, I do.
Jessica: You know, it’s Capricorn problems. I'm like, “Does not compute. I use it. Therefore, it is utility.” (Jessica laughs)
Lindsay: Yes.
Jessica: Like, I don't want to promote this way of thinking, but it is mine.
Lindsay: It's incredible.
Jessica: Yeah, but, you know, I'm okay. You know, I think about the world all the time. In which case, I don't feel great, and also, you know, in the context of the world, I'm doing great, and I'm okay. How are you, my friend?
Lindsay: I am, I feel exactly the same as you do. It's like I had… It is unbelievable that we're meeting because this past week I came home from a trip away, our first trip on an airplane, my family, since my first airplane ride, since the beginning of 2019. It was a lot. We had a lot of fun. We came back. My family's fine.
I had some sort of bug that didn't really behave. Honestly, it didn't really track with what—it was a gastro bug. And so I thought I was having an issue with my health again which, like we talked about on your podcast. And so I was actually in the ER to get checked, because I was like, I'd rather just have my bloodwork done and get a CAT scan and know. Like, editing my workbook for my offering, like, in the ER (Lindsay laughs), it was really, it's really been like a week.
Like I've been sick, my daughter is, like, reaching a completely, developmentally perfect stage of enormous separation anxiety. So it's just… it's fine. It's just a tremendous amount of, like, tenderness and space holding, which was there before, but she's a pretty independent kid. So this is just a little bit of a different tone than what we’re used to, but, again, fine.
And Chase and I both have, like, extreme deadlines that we had, too. But also I'm like, while I was in the hospital, I was just thinking how lucky I am to not be as sick as some of the folks here. So it's like with the world, with everything, with what it could be—I feel, honestly, like really blessed and good. And also, like with the world, what, you know, is, what it is, how good can it actually be? (Lindsay laughs)
Jessica: Yeah, absolutely.
Lindsay: And like, I also feel very… so it was a hard week, and also, yeah, it's a very spiral answer, you know. And I think, I appreciate you always being honest about that because I think it's the truth, you know?
Jessica: Really, I just feel like the older I get and just—maybe just the older I get—the like “everything's fine” answer, which I use for the bulk of my life, regardless of my circumstances, is more and more boring, you know? There's something so powerful just about being like, “Yeah, it's a plague. Like, the world is at a tipping point.” And it's hard to be like, “I'm cool. Let's hug.” I feel like I know a lot of people do that, and that's how they feel. But it's just, it's not for me.
[0:10:29]
Jessica: But I also say what you're naming—because we're recording this, like, just a couple of weeks from the New Year—is you're kind of talking about a Chariot vibe. Like, you're describing Chariot vibes.
Lindsay: Tell me. Tell me more about that.
Jessica: Well, you know, I think of The Chariot, and know we're going to really, like, unpack, but it's like, The Chariot is still. We call it The Chariot, and it's like, you know, literally, there's a figure on a chariot, but it's like having to stop and tend to the insides. It's like that Cancer-emo card, and I always think of it as a transition, like a highly emotional transition card.
Lindsay: Big time.
Jessica: So whether, you know, when I'm listening to the very little bit you shared of like how your daughter is in a transition and being like, “Stop leaving, stop moving, sit with me!” (Jessica laughs), or you're having to make decisions about how you engage with your work, or you're dealing with your health, which is always so emotional and intense, it sounds very Chariot-ey, you know? And I think, you know, we are, as a collective, and we're moving into Chariot vibes, which we, again, we'll talk about. But I think, yeah, it's just, it’s nice when you're on time. It's not always fun to be on time…
Lindsay: But it’s nice to be on time. (Lindsay laughs)
Jessica: But it’s nice when you’re like, “Oh, I saw that coming. I have context for this. I still have to go through it, but…” (Jessica laughs)
Lindsay: Absolutely. You know, it's interesting, because I do, like, a very large, channeled thing of the year ahead, and I'm not an astrologer. So I'm honoring, like, what I'm feeling, what I'm getting, what I'm pulling, and like, creating a very big scaffolding, but it's always very interesting to feel into, like, where the astrology in that either meets or doesn't or whatever. But I was surprised because I totally agree with you with The Chariot. Like, I think if we take—like, folks on the podcast have heard me talk about this, like, ad nauseam—but if you, like, it's so completely, and I'm not talking about Cancers as Sun signs, but just the energy of Cancer, it's like the shell. And on the inside, it's interesting that The Chariot is called “The Chariot” when it's really about The Charioteer inside The Chariot, and, ultimately, leaving it because it doesn't quite, it's not going to quite bring you to where you need to go, is enormous.
And I think when I was reflecting on it, I was thinking, well, like, we've all been born, and that's The Chariot. That's really the first Chariot. It's like we leave that space, and we don't know what the fuck is going on—depending on our situation. There's a huge variance in how we're born. But like, we're constantly going through this card. We’re constantly letting go of names and identities and shoe sizes and yet, it doesn't make it easier to go through it. It's still really, really intense. I think I could, like, go on about that.
I actually think The Chariot, of all the cards, really teaches us kind of how to die, too.
Jessica: Yeah. I hear that.
Lindsay: Because it's really here to, like, help us to drop, eventually, the body. But when I was channeling stuff for The Threshold, I was surprised at how much came up around The Chariot with regard to like, there was a lot of Moon card energy. There was a lot of liminality, a lot of like, “You're going through this leaving behind, and you're not quite going to know, like what is happening.”
Jessica: I have so much to say about that, astrologically.
Lindsay: (Lindsay laughs) Tell me! Let’s go!
[0:14:10]
Jessica: Okay, before I do, I just want to say something about what you just said because, excuse me, because you said something that, really, it clicked what I was trying to formate this morning when I thought about talking about this. You just referenced how it's really not about The Chariot; it's about The Charioteer, which is not a word I've ever heard, but I instantly love it (Lindsay laughs).
And what I was thinking about—because I'm a Thoth girl. I am, really. I use the Thoth deck.
Lindsay: Oh yeah, it’s beautiful.
Jessica: I mean, it's an astrology deck, really, so that's why I use it so much. Also, it's very pro-sex, which I like to be very pro-sex.
Anyways, in the Thoth deck, The Chariot, The Charioteer is in gold. He's got—I'm saying he, but I think it's a they. They've got this gold chariot from head to toe, completely. Not Chariot, but an outfit, head to toe. And so there's not just this hyper-identification with the card around that external shell, right? But also, it's golden, and we tend to prize what is gold. Gold is like a precious metal. And so this feeling of really needing to do the emotional work, but having so many reasons compelling you to keep it on the surface or to overprotect yourself.
Lindsay: That's right.
Jessica: So that we don't actually get to moving. Because as gorgeous as gold is, and I am in a non-monogamous relationship with gold, (Lindsay laughs) like I am like all gold, all the time, all yellow gold all the time.
Lindsay: Yeah, me too.
Jessica: So I'm obsessed. And so—can you hear that? (Whirring noise in background)
Lindsay: No.
Jessica: Great. Okay, sorry, neighbor noise.
And so, for me, this idea of wearing gold from head to toe: glorious. Not super user-friendly, though. Like, it's not flexible, it's not the thing that you want to, like, actually do the work in. So it's like there's this need to shed in order to become more in contact with the self, which is just… I was, like, having a hard time pulling apart The Chariot and The Charioteer, and you just did it by calling it a “Charioteer.” And I want to apologize about how excited I got. It was very exciting to me.
Lindsay: No, never apologize for anything you do. You're nailing it. You're nailing it.
Like, first of all, I think Thoth deck is wonderful, and I love that you brought in that visual description of it because I used Thoth in college, but don't remember it. And I always think like, obviously, this is the medium we're talking about, like touching it with the visual is so helpful. I think you're bringing up something, and we're leaning into something that I think is so important for folks to really receive and be witnessed in which is, like, it's a huge part of The Chariot.
I think that's present in Smith Rider-Waite, too, like the persona of The Chariot looks real good. It's hard to let go of that shit, it is. I think it's by design. Like, what we're letting go of is a shell that has, ultimately, helped us, but can't really take us where we're meant to go which is better. But we have to give up the thing that looks like it's working and looks really good.
And it just is so—I think, first of all, it takes us on such a massively vulnerable inventory within. And also, then you have to be, like, vulnerable, externally, and be like, “Yeah, this relationship, this collaboration, this dream, this vision, like, you know, that's not it,” you know, and that’s this internal thing, or I realized, like, “Oh, like, I identify completely differently than I thought I did,” or like, “I want to change this aspect about myself. Like, whoa!”
So I do think it's an internal to external change that couldn't… I think, in the grand scheme of the Tarot, I feel like this is one of the bigger energies that, um, some of them are all internal. This one's, like, internal to external in ways that are essential for it. But you just are spot on. It's such a great way, too, like speaking about gold and speaking about how good it looks, and it's not ultimately what we may be needing. But it's hard (Lindsay laughs).
[0:18:54]
Jessica: It's hard! And, you know, we'll definitely come back to the astrology. I will not forget, I promise.
But I will say, you know, I've seen interpretations of The Chariot card being about new beginnings. Like I've seen a lot of, you know, read a lot of references to that, and I don't exactly hold it that way. I hold it as the stationary part of transition, the materially straight, stationary part of transition. When you have all the tools, you have everything ready, you have to make the emotional adjustment to choose the transition. And once you've made that choice, when The Chariot is involved, there’s no going back. It's like a door that can't be unopened, right? And there is this movement that happens, and it is an inside-out movement. But I think it's more about transition than beginnings.
Lindsay: I absolutely agree.
Jessica: Yeah, and I do see, like, it's a very conventional way of thinking of it as a beginnings card, but again, not so much for me. But also, the part about The Chariot that is like what I always think the second I pull it for myself—not when I'm pulling it for others, but when I pull it for myself is, “Oh, I'm gonna have to be uncomfortable. I'm gonna have to be vulnerable. I'm gonna have to be in it. Like, I'm gonna have to be in the feelings of it.” And I don’t—in ways, I'm not, I don't want to, or maybe I'm technically ready, but I haven't done it before—so I don't have the chops yet. Like, you know, it's like I don't have the skills yet, the emotional skills, so I'm always like, “Agh!” when I get the card (Lindsay laughs). It's not bad. I'm not like, “Oh, this is a bad card.” But I'm also like, ugh, you know, there's a lot of work here.
Lindsay: Yeah, there's a lot of work. There's a lot of work. And I mean, I think the interesting thing to think about 2023, I mean, it's both kind of like a wonderful thing, and also, like, I have almost like a (Lindsay nervously gulps) GULP-like energy. Like, it's not just about us, personally. It's collective.
Yeah, it's a Chariot year. So I mean, the invitation is really like, and I think we're very clearly on track because the thing about, because we're letting go of Lovers here. The thing about The Lovers card that I think I, myself, like, as a younger reader, definitely felt this way, like, I think The Lovers card is really, woefully simplified. And I think, like, when we remember that it's connected to Gemini, and that it's connected to the idea of like, we go outside to go back in, and then we go back out.
And we're at this point where the full kind of medicine of Lovers has really taken place, where it's like, unless you are truly, truly, you've moved yourself away from kind of the larger collective unfolding, and you've opted out of that, in some way opted out of being a part of that, everyone can feel, oh, we've reached the end of the line with like, all of these systems, with all of these ways. Everything, like tip to tush, it's where there's no, you can't go forward on it. It's just dead. It's dead.
And that is, weirdly, I think, a very big part of Lovers—which doesn't mean that if we, you know, track Lovers to a relationship, I don't think Lovers is about relationships at all, personally, but if we do—I think it has less to do with like, “Oh, we're not going anywhere with this relationship.” I think it has more to do with like, “Oh, the parts of myself that I felt I was unable to be open about, free about, was unable to accept love about, like, those are the things that are falling down here.”
And with Chariot, it's kind of like that last piece, that it's not just the last piece. It's the last journey. It's a huge journey. But like, we're right on point, I think, collectively and personally, for this work, even though I do think it's going to be pretty brutal. Like, I think 2023 is gonna be a very hard year. I do.
[0:23:06]
Jessica: Yeah, I think you're right about that. You know, when I think of The Lovers, I'm always thinking about paradox. So it's like leaning into that Gemini vibe. It's the paradox. It's like the pandemic is over, and the pandemic is not over—they're both true. When we think of when we’re comparing the pandemic to pre-first vaccine and pre-lockdown, a lot of people are like, you know, “We're post pandemic,” while people are dying and sick, you know, and we're very much in a pandemic. I think, I think it's very much about paradox. It's about—which I think is related to what you're talking about. It's a different way of framing it. But it's just about like, yes and no. I'm done, and I'm not done, you know?
Lindsay: That’s so true.
Jessica: And then when we shift into The Chariot, there's no more room for that kind of paradox, because we have made a call, and now we must emotionally embody that calling. Like, we've answered the call, we've sorted through paradox, and now we're at the stage of development of emotional embodiment, which can be messy. It can be paradoxical, but very differently than that Gemini-Air vibe.
Now we're talking about a Cancer-Cardinal vibe. It's Water, and it is like the shift of seasons. It is fucking summer. We are moving into summer. That is what it is, you know, and there, I mean, at least in this hemisphere. And to me, the transition from head to heart—again, paradox to embodiment—is difficult. But in particular, it's difficult for us as a collective, at this time, when we are so mercurial. We are, you know, we're talking and communicating and texting and reading, I mean, short bits of reading, more than any other time in human development, you know? And so, shifting from the head to the heart in this way, I think, is a much more sticky downshift for us, as a collective, than it has been in previous times. So, you know, to your point, I concur. I think this is going to be a bit of a rough year. And also, the astrology bears out.
Lindsay: Yeah, I mean, where it's taking us is, ultimately, I don't know if I'd want to use the word great, but I think necessary, absolutely necessary. Like, it's a crucial part of what's a part of the time. I just need to pause and just really bow to what you just shared. I think that idea of moving from paradox to embodiment is fucking brilliant, and the way you just brought it is everything to me (Lindsay laughs). I loved it! I loved it, I loved it, thank you.
Jessica: Aww, thank you! No, thank you so much! I mean, I’m immediately discovering that I could sit and talk to you about like one Tarot card forever.
Lindsay: We should have a podcast.
Jessica: I mean, let's talk about that.
Lindsay: Let’s talk about that! (Lindsay laughs)
Jessica: I mean, you know, if it was gonna be anyone I would deal with, Mister, it would be you.
Lindsay: It's true. Yeah, we have a nice time, just S the B: shoot the breeze.
Jessica: Just S the B. Spoken like a parrot, S the B. Tip to tush. I like it (Jessica laughs). I’ve heard tip to tail, but I’ve never heard tip to tush, and I enjoyed it.
Lindsay: Tip to tush, titty to clitty, I’ve got it all.
Jessica: Titty to clitty? Okay, good. Also, S the B, and I really enjoyed that.
Lindsay: Yeah, thank you.
Jessica: No, thank you.
Lindsay: That’s Jersey. All that is Jersey.
Jessica: I respect that. I do.
Lindsay: Have you ever heard of the term MTC? That was a thing I learned in Jersey. It's called—I don't know whether or not it was something that I heard from, like, a friend who made it up, but it was, they're all from Jersey. So I'm just going to say that it's a part of the larger. MTC stands for “maximum tanning capacity.” And it has to do with, like, positioning yourself in such a way that you get the maximum amount of sun coverage (Jessica laughs).
Jessica: So, I have not heard of that. But I will say I'm from Montreal which is, when I grew up in the 1980s, what we would do is we would tan in the summer because there's like two months of sun, right? And it's hot.
Lindsay: Yes.
Jessica: It's two months. And I remember in the 1980s, what there would be—it's like you’d listen to radio because, of course, how else are you gonna listen to music? It was a different world. And there would be every X amount of minutes, I think it was like 20 minutes, even if it was the news, if it was a song, you would hear an ocean wave. They would play that ocean wave sound to know that you'd had to flip.
Lindsay: Are you serious?
Jessica: Like a heart attack, I'm serious. So it was like—talk about maximum tanning capacity (Jessica laughs), you were supposed to flip at that time. This was the era, for your younger listeners, and I don't remember how old you are, where we would use metal…
Lindsay: I’m ten years younger than you, so 84.
Jessica: Okay, so you probably weren't using, like those metal screens to maximum capacity.
Lindsay: No, those were before my time. (Lindsay laughs) It’s just my image.
Jessica: I'm with you, but I will say, I didn't realize it, but I was MTC-ing in the Eighties. Like I was, like, deep in the MTC. And now that I have a name for it, I feel like I'm gonna have to run with that name. So thank you, dear friend, Jersey.
Lindsay: Absolutely (Lindsay laughs).
[0:28:15]
Lindsay: Now, I know you personally are going into a Wheel of Fortune year 2023. I am going into a Tethered One year, making my way, clawing my way, little by little, out of this freak show that this Justice year has been for me. All of the worst years of my life have been Justice years. Oh my god, that card is so brutal. It’s so hard.
Jessica: I’m trying to—so the Justice is the Smith deck, and it's not called Justice in Thoth.
Lindsay: No, it’s called something else. I don't remember.
Jessica: I have a foundation with the Smith deck, so I know it. Gosh, I wish I could because I really am like…
Lindsay: I believe, in your deck, it is number eight, if I'm not mistaken.
Jessica: I think eight is the Strength,
Lindsay: Oh, is that in Thoth? I thought that Thoth swapped those. Because, typically, Strength is eight and Justice is eleven. But I thought Thoth on purpose swapped them.
Jessica: I don't know.
Lindsay: They're interchangeable in some decks.
Jessica: I'm looking at the Lust card right now, and it doesn't have a number. Oh wait, it does have a number. My cards are so…I can't see. It's something. Yeah, if you look at this, you can see there's, like, no numbers left. All to say, I do know what that card is, and I know that it's a heavy vibe.
Lindsay: It's just like, for me, I think like the experience of it, like being in a year of it, it's just like you're in what you're in.
Jessica: Yeah.
Lindsay: And you just have to be in it and you have to deal with it. And one of the biggest hardest things about Justice, I think, is that because we're human beings, it's like we automatically go to, “But this isn't the right place. This isn't a fair place. I don't want to be here.”
And Justice doesn't, I don't want to say Justice doesn't care. The cards aren't, like, sentient. They're just not. They're like, “Well, yes, of course, you're gonna feel those feelings, and like, you just have to be in what you're in.” But I find what I’m in is never pleasant. It's always absolutely brutalizing (Lindsay laughs). And so I'm, like, just always happy to leave that card behind.
[0:30:30]
Lindsay: But I want to know how you feel. Just like, thoughts off the top, how do you feel about being in, going into, a Wheel of Fortune year for yourself?
Jessica: Well, as you know, I am a Tarot reader, and I teach Tarot a bit. But I don't—because I'm an astrologer—I never pay attention to the year that I'm in because I've always got other things.
Lindsay: A plethora, yeah.
Jessica: I’ve got a plethora. So I should first say like, it's not like I can track any other, you know, Wheel of Fortune years. It's not something I've paid attention to, so that's why I can't track it. I can, I'm sure, do the math and figure it out. I, you know, whenever I see—and this is, again, when I'm reading for myself and not necessarily others, because there's a whole other context that I use. But when I look at it for myself, and I pull the Wheel of Fortune, I always think of this Jeanette Winterson quote. You know Jeanette Winterson? “You play, you win. You play, you lose. You play.” That's, yeah, that's my Wheel of Fortune quote, and that makes sense to me because it just makes sense to me on a gut level.
But I'll also say I am coming out of a very challenging transit, which I don't really want to get into details of, that's been, it'll be two years, just over two years, by March when it ends.
Lindsay: Happy for you.
Jessica: Thank you, me too. I'm happy for me. So I have this hope and expectation that my physical and my across-the-board health will improve and my energy will strengthen.
Lindsay: Yeah, me, too.
Jessica: And so who knows what comes of that, right? And I have been, in 2022, really recovering from 2020. Basically, like 2019 through 2021 was just like, I burnt myself out, and I overworked in a way that I had never overworked before, and also I'm older. And so I, you know, I'm also about to have a birthday in a couple of weeks. And so, I never really cared about aging, you know, I never really felt it until my later 40s, my, you know, mid to later 40s. I started to feel it a lot more, you know, emotionally and psychologically, more than physically, luckily for me. I knock on wood, just because why not?
And so, you know, just in this exact moment, when I think about, you know, the Wheel, and I think about my upcoming year, I definitely am also thinking about, like, how do I want to hold being at the end of my forties and what that means to me. Because you know, my friends who are in their 20s and 30s like to say, “Age is not a number, you're so young, da da da da da.” But I'm just like, we’ll see what you say when you're pushing 50, honey. Let's see. (Lindsay laughs)
Age is not just a number: age is age. Time is finite. And also, as a woman, I have no illusions about the waning value I hold in society to women as much as to men, you know, to all genders. There is a way that we all throw away women. We all do it as a culture and in our own ways, a lot of times as individuals. And that's something that I think I've been thinking about since I hit my 40s, because I've had experiences with it, and it's just a fascinating experience.
It's, you know, I feel like it's important that I continue to do what I've done my whole life, which is to find my way through it and myself through it instead of just the, you know, the conventional way, and also, I live in a world. So it's not all in my hands, which is, yeah. It’s just all, you know, “You play it, you win. You play, you lose. You play.” You can't help the play, you're in the game. So there it is. That's my take on it. Hot take. (Jessica laughs)
Lindsay: I love your hot take. And just really bowing to what you're sharing. Like, again, our age is different and I really want to be in deep respect to that because I do have a tremendous amount of respect for the experience of age and just the lived experience. As somebody who's going to be 39 in a couple months, I’m already experiencing like, oh, wow, I got treated a little differently, like, nine or so years ago (Lindsay laughs), you know. Even four years ago, it was a little different. So it's yeah, just like yes, absolutely seeing that,
[0:35:34]
Jessica: You know, again, like, bringing it back to The Chariot, this is, you know, we're talking about what's underneath the golden, not outfit, the golden suit. We're talking about, you know, like, The Chariot is in this like meditative pose. It's, like, serene, it's calm, and it's still. But what's happening on the inside of The Chariot is chaotic emotion. It's like, you know, it's like this difficult stuff that we don't exactly know how to move through.
And I think whether we're talking about like, you know, chosen family, family of origin, our relationship to ourselves, or our process, it is sticky and messy, and that’s as it's meant to be. But again, this Chariot card, there's nothing on the surface that is depicted as sticky and messy. There's so many cards in these decks that show us sticky and messy, but The Chariot is sticky and messy, but it doesn't show it.
Lindsay: Bingo.
Jessica: Yeah, bingo.
Lindsay: And, you know, I've said for a long time to my students and on this podcast, like, we all know people who've never left a Chariot.
Jessica: Yes.
Lindsay: We do. You can tell, like you can. And I'm not—I mean, listen: if you can get away with it, I couldn't get away with that if I tried (Lindsay laughs), like not leaving The Chariots that are ready to have me slough them off. But yeah, it's like you just nailed something so absolute about The Chariot, about this time, about what we're talking about, which is really like, it doesn't look messy, but it's so messy. And it's messy.
I mean, I always think about, for myself, imagine going into the Strength card with that Chariot. Imagine going off into the wild woods to get to this, like, epic moment where you're connecting with this symbolic lion that, like, lives within you that you have to face, in order to kind of both transform. Like, this can't be done in your gold suit. Gold suits are great. It's just not the vehicle to get you there.
So we have to be willing to be honest about that. And I do think that’s 99.9% of the work with Chariot, which is what we're talking about. It’s just being honest enough to be like, this looks really good, I don't want to mess all this up, but like, it's I have to, you know, in order to, like, survive and live.
[0:38:00]
Jessica: And you know, and I'll piggyback on a part that you spoke to that I really wanted to get to be able to talk about with The Chariot, which is, it's a Cancer card, right? It's like, not Sun in Cancer, but the zodiac sign of Cancer, it's that archetypal energy. And Cancer can be very clannish, which is why we are the most critical of our own communities. We demand the most of the people we identify with, in some ways, right?
And I think, in particular, that shift from the duality of like, “Let me try this on for size, let me try that on for size,” in The Lovers to the “I have put something on, I am sitting in it,” and it's like you see yourself in others that you can identify with. And so then, the criticisms that we have of ourselves end up getting shared with the people in our community.
Lindsay: They do.
Jessica: And this is so Cancerian, because Cancer can be quite—and, again, I'm not talking about people with Cancer in their chart, but the energies—can be quite passive aggressive, because it's like, “I can't do anything but agh!” you know? (Jessica laughs) Kinda like the vibe of it. And I think there's something really powerful about, as we move into and through this Chariot season for the upcoming year, that we—and I'm certainly going to, like, bookmark this for myself—that we track how we are, or are not, projecting onto people who have shared lived experience as us or are in shared community or are in our families as a way to like kind of project how the discomfort we're having in our own lives and in our own selves.
Lindsay: Because, again, The Chariot continues. I didn't mean to cut you off. My mind was blown.
I remember, too, with what came up for The Threshold, that channeled thing I do, that there was a lot about l getting yourself detangled from other stuff that’s really—I think it’s good medicine all the time, but especially for next year. You have to think, like, “Ooh, it would be all too easy for someone to just be like, I'm going to make my life, like, following this person, tracking this thing, getting super involved in this.” And listen: you and I have both talked about we're voracious consumers of news. It's both brilliant. It's important to both of us to stay up to date with what's going on.
Jessica: Yeah.
Lindsay: And I think there is a line that you find yourself bumping on that's like, I can stay involved and in touch, and I also need to take this kind of, I need to put this guardrail in place at this moment, in the season of my life around this particular thing, or this whole thing, or whatever it is. Not because we're opting out, but because we're—I know for myself—there's a real difference in my nervous system when I'm like, “Oh, I'm reading” versus like, I'm avoiding something, or I'm choosing to vent out something internally around this, or I'm wishing my life could be more like that. It's very rare that I get like, swept up into, like, something else that looks like oh, so good. But when I catch myself in it, I'm like, whoa, you know, I'm in my life, and I'm going to come back to my life. So I do.
And it's funny, because my card for 2023 is the Tethered One. So I have, like, Neptune on Pisces on Pisces on Neptune. That’s like, a lot. But I think in some ways, like, I'm curious to see how this year will feel for me because in ways they're both pretty complimentary, actually. Like Chariot work and Tethered One work, both of them are suspensions in order to kind of cocoon you so that you can rebirth differently. They're both like suspensions of the vehicle, which I think is very interesting. So, both different, Neptune versus Cancer, very different. But like, I don't know, it should be interesting.
Jessica: You know, like, I’m now dying to talk about the astrology. But I will say, like…
Lindsay: Yeah, I want to move on to that.
[0:42:24]
Jessica: Yeah, I'll just say very briefly, though: like the Tethered One, The Moon card, The Chariot, they’re kind of practices in parsing out the nuances of emotion versus feeling, and the differences and nuances within those things. And it's such a powerful practice, especially for people who are highly sensitive or empathic or psychic in any way, to have it be an ongoing practice to parse out: is this an emotion? Is this a trigger? Is this a feeling? Is it a physical feeling? Is it an energetic feeling? Like, to be able to know the language of our insides is so powerful.
Lindsay: You’re absolutely right.
Jessica: And I love that the Tarot articulates the nuance of difference. And we can sometimes be so in our head about the cards and what they mean in our lives, that we go into, like a reaction of like, “Oh no, The Tethered One! That means I have no control this year,” or whatever. And like, that's not what we're meant to do.
Lindsay: That’s right.
Jessica: It's about tapping into this nuance of feeling that's not emotion. I mean, The Chariot’s emotion, but that Tethered One is not, really. It's not about emotion, it's about feeling and sensation. And it's just a whole other thing, which is like, again, we're talking nuance here, but that level of nuance is so important.
Lindsay: It's so true. I also think Tethered One is interesting, because we were collectively in a Tethered One year in 2019. And I traveled out of the country for the first time in 2019, multiple times. I'd never traveled outside of the country before that. And I remember thinking like, why now? And why in a Tethered One year? That's really interesting. And I like to put my little, like, I'm a field observer with Tarot, I always say. So I like to be like, oh, this thing is happening this year. Tell me more, how interesting, or whatever, you know?
But personally, there were quite a few situations that I remember having to sit in that there was really, like, the wisdom of no way out with them; that were excruciating. And I remember really thinking like, it's interesting where you move in Tethered One, how you move, and how you're suspended, and what both of those things bring up because you're right. It's all about… there is something of an Underworld Journey, for sure, to Tethered One that I think has certainly changed my life, to be sure, in 2019. I thought, like, whoa. This felt like a real initiation with this card. I feel like I understand it differently and better.
So, yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, all of them require us to be able to really check in and say: is this truth, this invitation into feeling or thought or this? It’s real, but is it true? Like, is it absolutely true? How do I know? Like, you know.
Jessica: And where is it true? Like, what part of ourselves, right?
Lindsay: Yeah. And even if it isn't, how can I tend myself through it, or, you know, how can I take care of myself? So, you know, just like the questions of our lifetime. (Lindsay laughs)
Jessica: Just those questions.
Lindsay: Yeah.
Jessica: Okay. So I should do astrology now, right?
Lindsay: I want to talk—yes. So Jessica is so graciously going to grace us with her brilliance and talk to us about just some of the key points of 2023, and, you know, just brushing on it because, again, if people want the good stuff, they can come to Ghost of Podcast, they can invest with you, but just like a little sampler.
Jessica: Yeah, I'm excited to do the Sampler. This is actually… So every year I do, on the first, I drop a year-ahead horoscope on Ghost of a Podcast, so people can listen to it there. But I get invited at the end of the year to do a lot of these kinds of like, “Can you tell me what's coming?” And this is my first one of the year. So that's exciting.
Lindsay: It’s an honor. It is.
Jessica: Thank you very much.
[0:46:33]
Jessica: So there's like a bunch of things that are really noteworthy. And let's start with Pluto:
Because we are currently going through the Pluto Return of the United States, which is a transit that if you have not heard of it, and you want to learn more about it, you can listen to my 2022 Year Ahead Horoscope where unpack it well. But it is the transit that is responsible for the profound transformation we are having as a collective where our collective shame has come up and demanded to be dealt with, both domestically and also on a global stage; the things that we have, the kind of, like, shadow side of our conduct as a nation and our culture, you know, on the inside. And this is why so many of us are so much more aware of what's wrong in our society. And it's a time where we are meant to be majorly changing. I mean, there's a reason why we had an insurrection, you know, at this time: it's the Pluto return, and it's happening at 27 degrees of Capricorn.
And what is going to happen in 2023—it’s for a few months, the end of March through the start of June—Pluto is going to be in Aquarius. And then it'll, you know, before that and after that, it'll sneak back into Capricorn and kind of stay with those Pluto return vibes. But I want to just speak to that moment where we're gonna get a taste test of what's to come. And this taste test of what's to come, my friend, let me tell you, it will be January 21 of 2024 through, I didn't write down the exact date, but it's early 2044. So 20 years of Pluto in Aquarius coming for us. And again, we're going to have a little amuse-bouche, if you will.
Lindsay: Amuse-bouche (Lindsay laughs), yes!
Jessica: You're welcome (Jessica laughs). And that is March 23 through June 11 of 2023 is our amuse-bouche. And with Pluto moving into Aquarius—and it's important to name that Pluto takes about 250 years to move through the zodiac. So the last time it was in Aquarius was 250 years ago, a long time ago. But the cool thing about astrology, I mean, there's so many cool things about astrology, but if you're, like, curious about what's going to happen in the world, you can look at history, you know, what was happening in history.
But with Pluto moving into Aquarius, I think that we are going to see a great movement towards collectives, groups, tribes. And not like this kind of like clannish-tribalism that is kind of, like, behind nationalism that we see more of that with Pluto in Capricorn, you know, “build the wall,” that kind of bullshit. But what we have here is groups of people coming together to support each other for collective change.
We can expect major pushes for change in a progressive way. So this is related to the increased rights of women, of queers, and hopefully, across cultural and racial lines. Like, there's the potential for that. It is not a guarantee and nothing happens on its own. It happens because two people come together and make it happen.
[0:50:09]
Jessica: With Pluto in Aquarius the theme is progress. But Pluto is a revolutionary planet. It's transformational. And whenever we're dealing with transformation, we're dealing with, um, we're dealing with the shit and the shine of it; like we're dealing with, you know, when things collapse, they collapse on something. When things need to be rebuilt, they're generally in a phase, often of many years, of not functioning properly because we're still trying to build it, right?
So, you know, over the last several years, I've heard people say countless times, “Burn it to the ground, burn it to the ground,” when talking about systems, and I don't disagree. But when you burn things to the ground, it is always the most vulnerable who gets scorched, you know?
Lindsay: Very true.
Jessica: And so this is going to be a time for progress, but we must be humanistic about it. There is also a, you know, we've just had chat GBT, this AI, come up in the last like two weeks, right, the start of December, very shortly before Pluto moves into Aquarius in the final moments of Saturn in Aquarius. And I think that we are going to see major impact of technology on the world in a way that I think will change humanity in ways we can't really fully conceive of quite yet, for better or worse. And I mean that very strongly, like for better or worse.
And within that, there is the potential as we move away from Pluto in Capricorn to move out of toxic capitalism. And when I say toxic capitalism, I think all systems have ways in which they are corrupt, where a few at the top get the most and keep others struggling—so, not only in capitalistic systems. But there is this great potential for a transformation of our social and economic systems and how they interplay with each other. But again, this will be tied to capitalism, it will be tied to technology, rather. And, I mean, as a person living in the San Francisco Bay area, I have no illusions about the economic values of the people at the top of the tech world. It’s not progressive in my view, at all. So that is like a very hot quick take is just like a throw in the frying pan and zhuzhed it for you.
Lindsay: It’s gorgeous.
Jessica: Okay, thank you
Lindsay: Throw some powdered sugar on it. It's a beautiful beignet. It’s gorgeous (Lindsay laughs).
Jessica: Yes, it’s a beignet.
Lindsay: It's gorgeous, thank you.
[0:52:43]
Jessica: But then there's the real news, I want to talk to you about. I mean, that's real news. Fuck, that's very real news.
Lindsay: It’s very real.
Jessica: But then there's this news that I want to talk to you about that really touches into so much of what you've been talking about, which is this move of Saturn into Pisces. Because when Saturn moves into Pisces, and Saturn takes 29 and a half years to move into any zodiac sign, so the last time it was in Pisces was about 29 years ago, and before that, 29 years before that, and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. But what's unusual is that Neptune is currently in Pisces, and Neptune takes about 165 years to move through the zodiac. So no living person will have ever experienced Neptune in Pisces, whereas many generations of living people will have experienced Neptune in Pisces before. So—I'm sorry, Saturn in Pisces.
Lindsay: Saturn, yeah.
Jessica: Thank you, you were following me even though I fucked it up.
Lindsay: I was.
Jessica: And so what, to me, is really fascinating is not just looking at the last time Neptune was in Pisces, but the last time both the planets were in Pisces together. So, Saturn will be in Pisces for two and a half years, and this transit can do a lot of things. It can be a transit, where we have a shifting or dissolving of boundaries, right?
So, this can be around the church or other religious structures. It can also happen around spirituality and conspirituality. We may see a continued, I expect to see, a continued rise in conspirituality, the most succinct way of saying spiritual systems that are based on disassociation, and where the group has to give up power to a singular figure. When we are looking at this period, we are likely to see, again, an uptick in people valuing, um, structures like communism, socialism, because we're going to have Saturn and Neptune in boundary-dissolving, we-are-all-one, Pisces at the same time.
And Pluto, then Pluto will be in Aquarius. Now Pluto will be in Aquarius much longer than these two transits will occur. But with this overlap, there's likely to be a global shift in our concerns.
[0:55:27]
Jessica: Now on a more personal level, I think about—and I'm so, you know, I rarely get to talk about Tarot. It's so lovely to get to do this with you.
But when I think of the Saturn in Pisces card, it's the Eight of Cups in the Tarot. It's that ougie-gougie, you went out, you took in too much information, now you don't know what your instincts say. You don't have backbone, you lost track of something, you're over, your emotions are, like, over-schloofed inside of you, and you just don't have a clear resource that you're working with. And that’s Saturn in Pisces vibes in Tarot world, right?
There is a way that Saturn is very uncomfortable in the zodiac sign of Pisces and Saturn, because Saturn wants to build boundaries, and Neptune wants to dissolve boundaries. Neptune wants to transcend and be spiritual. And Saturn wants there to be rules and steps to that, not just to transcend, but to work towards it, right? And so there's great, positive potential within that, and there's also a great deal of risks within that.
And again, technology and escapism are the two things I want to pay the most attention to—and I say “again” but I didn't mention escapism before. But escapism with Neptune in Pisces is a very big deal. We've already seen, like, this spike in how we're using technology for the endless scroll, where we lose, you know, weeks and months and years of our lives to what? To looking at our phones, you know, and to developing relationships with people that are not two-way relationships: they're one-way relationships. So they're very in our head, and it's very Neptunian, it's very Piscean, you know?
On a more like, pre-internet way, a classic Piscean thing to do, which people still do, is to place someone that they don't really know on such a high pedestal, that they believe that they're in love when it's not based in a shared exchange or shared knowledge of between people.
So there's a lot of risk and potential with this transit. And I think that, again, we have this iteration of Saturn moving from Aquarius into Pisces, which is a similar dynamic of from Lovers to Chariot. It’s from head and duality to heart and having to really just loosen the reins. Again, The Chariot is in a pose of meditation, not like the Running Man, you know? So it's really a powerful shift that I think is going to be disruptive for a lot of people, because we have an easier time shifting from heart to head, than from head to heart.
Lindsay: That's right.
Jessica: So, you know, for people who have the tool of Tarot—and so many of your listeners do—being able to tap into, like, “Okay, this is what I'm feeling: am I reacting or am I in alignment with myself? Am I projecting or am I in alignment with myself?” you know, is a really good framework to use in this Chariot year because, when using the Tarot in such a Piscean era, it is wise to do it to help you cope with reality instead of step out of reality. That's gonna be really important for all of our spiritual tools.
Lindsay: Oh my god. Yeah, you are everything.
Jessica: Aww.
Lindsay: Thank you so much. I feel like that's, number one, just so generous, so helpful. I'm just so thankful you brought your brilliance to us. And I know everyone is probably just so thankful, myself included. Oh my god, Jessica, you are just a dream. Everybody knows who you are, but…
Jessica: No, come on, do they?
Lindsay: Of course, they do. And if not, then today's the day. (Jessica laughs)
But where can folks find you? Where can folks keep in touch with you? Let's give them all the good stuff.
[1:00:01]
Jessica: Okay, so you can find me on the internet. It's also referred to as the worldwide web, if you're into it, also web three. I'm on web three. Web two? Anyways, I don't know. My website’s lovelanyadoo.com, easier to spell is ghostofapodcast.com. It'll bring you to the same place. And my weekly podcast, Ghost of a Podcast, is the only place you can get a reading from me or with me. I don't offer one-on-one readings anymore. But on Patreon, I'm very, very active on my Patreon, and I teach Tarot, and I talk all manner of woo, and I get into astrology, and all that kind of shit that I really love. And then I'm on social media. Right now, it's just, I mean, I’m technically on Twitter, but Elon Musk, please. I can’t. So right now I'm mainly on Instagram—which Mark Zuckerberg, I don't fucking know what I'm doing there. But anyways, there's no good place to be—
Lindsay: It’s all horrible.
Jessica: I've chosen this one place as the one place to be. And so yeah, Patreon, Ghost of a Podcast, I have a book about astrology.
Lindsay: Astrology for Days.
Jessica: Oh, and I have Astrology for Days! That’s right, I forgot. I’m bad at this game. I have this pro tool for astrology students and astrologers called Astrology for Days, and it's a subscription, and it tracks all the transits for whatever time zone you're in, and it tells you exactly what transits are happening at what time, every day—not the transits in your chart, the transits in the world. And it has, like, a journal essentially embedded in it.
So you can track your predictions, other people's notes, and use it as a learning tool or a tool for, you know, for somebody like me who's a horoscope writer, you know? Every time somebody's like, “Can we schedule time to talk about podcasts?” I check Astrology for Days, and then I make a decision.
Lindsay: That’s amazing.
Jessica: So if you're, you know, a kind of deep-enough astrology nerd, you can check that out. It's all on my website, and I have lots of free stuff on my website. And it's cute. I don't want to brag, but I do want to brag about my website, because it's so cute.
Lindsay: It is adorbs. It’s beautiful.
Jessica: Thank you. I appreciate it. I really have a crush on my website.
Lindsay: It brings, it's a lift. It's just a genuine lift to the Spirit.
Jessica: Thank you for saying that. It took a year to build and I love it.
Lindsay: Did you do it? I know it's your vision.
Jessica: It's my vision. But no, I had a designer, and I had it, like, coded from scratch.
Lindsay: Oh yeah, it's clear. That's not a Squarespace template.
Jessica: It's not a Squarespace template from the internet, no. It is an experience.
Lindsay: Yes, it is! It's an experience.
Jessica: And in fact, while you're there, I have a free app in the iOS store called Tiny Spark, and it's embedded in the home page. So you can use it on the home page if you have an Android instead of an iPhone. And it's basically like a magic eight ball for millennials, you know what I mean? It's like millennial pink. And it's just like, you ask a question, tap the screen, starts moving. Tap it again, you get your answer. Bada bing, bada boom. You're welcome.
Lindsay: That's beautiful. Oh my god, thank you so much.
Jessica: Thank you!
Lindsay: This surely won't be the last time we have you. Thank you for being here, and thank you for bringing your work to the world. It's so important.
Jessica: Thank you. And I should say, if people haven't heard my episode, on my podcast, giving you a reading.
Lindsay: That's right. We're gonna link to it in the show notes.
Jessica: Okay, good. Okay, good. That makes me really happy because that was… enjoy.
Lindsay: Yeah, it was incredible. Jessica gave me the reading of my life all about my hellacious postpartum experience and help to bring a lot of medicine to it. So well, thank you, friend. I’m so glad to know you.
Jessica: I'm so glad to know you! And I'm so happy we got to talk so much Tarot because I really just don't get to do it enough.
Lindsay: We need more of it from you.
Jessica: Okay.
Lindsay: I mean, this is the place, I mean, I’m happy to have you as a guest.
Jessica: This is the place to be. I feel like this is the place.
Lindsay: Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
Jessica: Thank you again for having me. This is wonderful.
Lindsay: Thank you so much for being here.
—